[dugedug]

I'm in the market for a 10mm to add to my collection and am having difficulties finding one that suites my needs and finances. I recently purchased a Springfield Ultra Carry thinking I could just buy a Barsto barrel and drop it in only to find, after I purchased it, that the smallest barrel they make in 10mm is 5"(gov). Are there any other options to get a small carry firearm in 10mm or do I have to have a big dog in that caliber? A Spring UC in 10mm would look nice next to my Sig 229 .357sig Thnx.

 

[jaydee]

Just a thought... Why not get a Kimber 40, the Pro Carry in steel if possible, and ream out the chamber?

Of course, due to the differences in breech faces, I don't think you could successfully use a 45 slide, and convert it for use as a 10 without some serious mods...

 

[38 Super Combat Commander]

You could get a S&W 1076.Mine shoots great and the barrel is 4 1/4 inches.There should be plenty out there on the used gunshop shelfs.

 

[Guest]

You can also order a commander length barrel from Barsto.

 

[telackey]

If you jst want a hot gun, you could shoot some hefty stuff in that UC, or get some enterprising smith to cut a .400 Cor-Bon or even .40 Super barrel down.

As I said on the 1911forum, it is your hand. I sure would not do it, I think .45 isn't even the best in those little guns.

 

[dugedug]

Don't like S&W nor GLock, that's why I got this 1911. Cutting a barrel down does sound interesting but I have no clue who would do it. I looked at various hot .45 rounds but none get close to the 10mm energy. How do the 400 corbon or 40 super/45 super compare to the .357sig and 10mm? Getting a 40/45 super and cutting it down would peak my interest too. If at the least i'll just get some hot .45 loads and be happy but there will be this missing spot that will someday need filling. know what I mean?

 

[telackey]

135gr .400 Cor-bon gets 630fpe out of a 5" tube.

 

[dugedug]

sheesh, that's it? the .357sig is putting out 1250+ in my 125gr corbons. I beleive the 10mm gets close to that speed in a heavier bullet. The other important factor is the engergy(.sig is something like 500 and the 10mm is approx. 600). Can I get a .45 to get over 1090fps in a 200+ gr bullet with something above let's say 450 ft lbs? If so that would be enough for me. If not I will ask the local smiths how engineuitive they are ie. cutting barrel down

 

[jaydee]

DugeDog... You are reading it wrong... He said FP/e, not FP/s

The 135gr 400 Corbon runs about 1450 FP/s, and while slightly slower that the hotest 357 Sig, it's way faster than the hottest 10mm, and outhits anything short of the 40 Super. It's on Par with a 44 Magnum, not the 357 Magnum.

http://www.cor-bon.com/ammo.html

 

[gyp_c2]

If you don't mind an observation...seems to me you're pretty worried about the #s to the extent of building a whole gun around that. While it's been done many times, often the reason that most find the way back to some of the more popular cartridges, is for a certain amount of availability. Some things are much easier to get than others and the benefits of that outweigh a few better #s on paper that can't be shown to be of any great benefit anyway...I understand the need to find the "magic" in things...especially pistols or anything else that I might have to depend on. If that's what you're hunting, more power to ya'...if you just want better #s, there are easier ways to get them...and besides, you may not be happy with what getting those #s entails :wink:

Good luck with the hunt!

 

[Sean Smith]

On 2001-06-13 01:53, jaydee wrote:
DugeDog... You are reading it wrong... He said FP/e, not FP/s

The 135gr 400 Corbon runs about 1450 FP/s, and while slightly slower that the hotest 357 Sig, it's way faster than the hottest 10mm, and outhits anything short of the 40 Super. It's on Par with a 44 Magnum, not the 357 Magnum.

http://www.cor-bon.com/ammo.html

Jaydee,

Too bad you don't seem to know what you are talking about. .400 Cor-Bon isn't way hotter than 10mm, it is merely on par with most 10mm with the lighter bullet weights. Pro Load's 135gr JHP clocks 1440 FPS. And .400 Cor-Bon is nowhere NEAR as powerful as .44 Magunum or even .41 Magnum. No .400 Cor-Bon load breaks 700 ft-lbs, while .41 Magnum factory loads get over 900 ft-lbs and .44 Magnum up to 1200. Heck, Cor-Bon's own .357 Magnum [email protected] 1265 FPS load is on par with than their entire .400 Cor-Bon lineup! The hottest .400 Cor-Bon load is a 170gr JSP @1330 FPS/668 ft-lbs; the hottest 10mm hunting load made by Cor-Bon is a 180gr JSP @ 1320 FPS/697 ft-lbs. So much for outhitting everything short of .40 Super... :roll:

There are no .400 Cor-Bon loads, or load data for handloading those loads, beyond 170gr bullets. OTOH, 10mm factory ammo goes up to 200 grains and 220gr bullets and load data are available. CCI/Speer, Cor-Bon, Federal, Georgia Arms, Hornady, Pro Load, Remington/UMC, Triton and Wincester all make 10mm ammo. .400 Cor-Bon ammo is made by... uh... Cor-Bon?


_________________
CastleBravo
Visit The Pit: http://www.geocities.com/mr_motorhead/

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: CastleBravo on 2001-06-13 10:00 ]</font>

 

[jaydee]

On 2001-06-13 09:55, CastleBravo wrote:
Jaydee,

Too bad you don't seem to know what you are talking about.

CB... Thanks man... It takes a BIG man to point something like this out to someone like me... I just never realized that YOU do know what I am talking about.

.400 Cor-Bon isn't way hotter than 10mm, it is merely on par with most 10mm with the lighter bullet weights. Pro Load's 135gr JHP clocks 1440 FPS. And .400 Cor-Bon is nowhere NEAR as powerful as .44 Magunum or even .41 Magnum. No .400 Cor-Bon load breaks 700 ft-lbs, while .41 Magnum factory loads get over 900 ft-lbs and .44 Magnum up to 1200. Heck, Cor-Bon's own .357 Magnum [email protected] 1265 FPS load is on par with than their entire .400 Cor-Bon lineup!

I should have PREFACED my comments with "For Corbon Self Defense Loads, in which, DugeDog was comparing his Corbon 357 Sig 125 JHP with. Also, I should have continue to PREFACE my remarks with "From the table in the link provided", and "excluding any Handloading Data which I don't have available".

The hottest .400 Cor-Bon load is a 170gr JSP @1330 FPS/668 ft-lbs; the hottest 10mm hunting load made by Cor-Bon is a 180gr JSP @ 1320 FPS/697 ft-lbs. So much for outhitting everything short of .40 Super... :roll:

There are no .400 Cor-Bon loads, or load data for handloading those loads, beyond 170gr bullets. OTOH, 10mm factory ammo goes up to 200 grains and 220gr bullets and load data are available. CCI/Speer, Cor-Bon, Federal, Georgia Arms, Hornady, Pro Load, Remington/UMC, Triton and Wincester all make 10mm ammo. .400 Cor-Bon ammo is made by... uh... Cor-Bon?

Absolutely, but then, Comparing Apples with Oranges seems silly, so using a 357 Sig Corbon Factory Load, and comparing it to another Corbon Factory Load provides a better Delta with which to compare.

Honestly, I don't think that Corbon makes the best or hottest load, but then, I wasn't comparing loads from other manufactures. Someone had suggested the 400 Corbon, which I have had an interest in playing with, but haven't yet, and the ONLY real way to compare Apples with Apples is to use one Corbon load against another, AND DugeDog HAD mentioned HIS 357 Sig Corbon load!

I will admit that it was late, and my head wasn't entirely clear when I posted. I probably shouldn't have even mentioned the 40 Super in my post, as getting into the Triton's is an entirely different comparison, and definately, a different beast, BUT THAT SAID, Dugedog had asked about how the 400 Corbon compared with the 40/45 Super, and the 357 Sig & 10mm.

I think that Triton's offerings are much better than Corbon's, but then, it depends on the load, and the style, AND the intended PURPOSE, and execution.

IMHO, I don't think that the 45 Super is a practical solution in his Springfield UC with the sub 4" barrel. I know I would not want to shoot it.

Of course, Corbons HUNTING loads are different from the JHP Self Defense loads, and in fact, they don't offer any comparable 357 Sig load to compare with.

Now... Of course, you are entitled to YOUR opinion, and I, mine. To BLATANTLY say that I don't know what I am talking about seems a little rude to me, but then, that is ONLY my opinion, and of course, YMMV!

Maybe you can live with this 'corrected' commented...

From the table provided ( http://www.cor-bon.com/ammo.html ), no other FACTORY offering from Corbon, in standard pistol calibers, hits as hard as the 135 gr 400 Corbon, and compares more favorably with a 44 magnum load than the 357 magnum profile the 357 Sig emulates in terms of energy.

Hope that meets with your approval.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: jaydee on 2001-06-13 11:29 ]</font>

 

[jaydee]

On 2001-06-13 08:37, gyp_c2 wrote:
If you don't mind an observation...seems to me you're pretty worried about the #s to the extent of building a whole gun around that. While it's been done many times, often the reason that most find the way back to some of the more popular cartridges, is for a certain amount of availability. Some things are much easier to get than others and the benefits of that outweigh a few better #s on paper that can't be shown to be of any great benefit anyway...I understand the need to find the "magic" in things...especially pistols or anything else that I might have to depend on. If that's what you're hunting, more power to ya'...if you just want better #s, there are easier ways to get them...and besides, you may not be happy with what getting those #s entails :wink:

Good luck with the hunt!

Gpy-C, of course, then you have a bunch of people that hang out around here that have built guns on the 9x23 for much the same reasons, and the 9x23 is not what I'd consider one of the more 'popular cartridges' :grin:

I don't see anything wrong with building a gun around a certain caliber, although I don't think I would peresonally use a Sub-Compact 1911 as the basis for something like that. My personal preference is for something more 'Commander Sized' in terms of barrel/slide length. I prefer the longer sight radius, and the balance afforded by the longer slide.

 

[Guest]

Well,
I'm glad to see you guys cleared that up, the .400 Corbon is a competitor to the 10mm as an alternate low pressure round that can be safely fired in most .45acp pistols.
It definitely is not superior to the 10mm ballistically and should not be viewed as a replacment for such.
I have worked with the .45 Super and now the .40 Super in compact and alloy pistols and while they do not "detonate" upon touching off a round and do all sorts of evil things they are very stout in the little Officers size guns and on the level of a full power .41 Magnum in an alloy frame commander.
The Officers model did wear pretty quickly as peening was clearly visible at the front section of the frame.
If your quest is really to find the optimum self defense cartridge look no further as you already own it, it is the .45acp.
Accurize and customize your guns and look for a quality 230 gr+P load and practice with it.

 

[gyp_c2]

Man...is it the heat of the summer or WHAT?! We all sure do seem to enjoy knockin' the crap out of each other lately!
Is it just me or is anyone else noticing how angry the posts seem to be lately?

...sheesh...

 

[jaydee]

On 2001-06-13 11:02, gyp_c2 wrote:
Man...is it the heat of the summer or WHAT?! We all sure do seem to enjoy knockin' the crap out of each other lately!
Is it just me or is anyone else noticing how angry the posts seem to be lately?

...sheesh...

Hehehee... Must be the weather... Like the smiley though, it seems to b fitting around here at times... In fact, I think I'll be adding it to my collection... :wink:

 

[dugedug]

WOW, I have been getting alot of great replies. I am a little closer to an understanding. So far I've gathered that 10mm, 400CB, and .45acp are an option(if I want to build a gun around the caliber, excluding the already established .45acp). The reason I want to stick with a compact is a couple of obvious reasons and a couple of personal. The obvious ones are size/concealment. One personal reason is that I've never shot a fullsize better than a compact. Be it a BHP, P226, 92F...that I have owned. My Sig pro/.357 and P229 .357 have shot the most accurate FOR ME out of all my guns and calibers I have owned(9mm, .357Sig, .40S&W, .44, .45LC, and now .45acp). One reason I want a hot load is what I have found out with the .357sig. Follow up shots come quicker and with the inherited accuracy of this round I find that even with a compact I shoot faster and have more rounds in the kill zone. I would have originally went with a .357 1911 but I figured that with the limited rounds avaliable(6 in most cases), I wanted to optimize stopping power. Out of all the rounds I saw, the 10mm was the most pronounced and most recommended.

But if all else fails and it seems like I'm at a dead end(don't have the funds to have a special barrel milled for my needs) I may just use the one that came with it and find a load that i am happy with. The only thing i'm concerned about is the low energy numbers that the .45acp has, that I have seen. Many ppl say that the common 9mm and .45 are the best defensive rounds, but after shooting the .357 sig and hearing stories of what it has accomplished(the truck shootout). I have grown to like "oddball" higher performing rounds.

Thnx again for all the replies.

 

[Sean Smith]

Jaydee,

Your post was incorrect. I corrected it. Quoting you yet again in case it wasn't clear the first time 'round:

"it's way faster than the hottest 10mm [only true if 1450 is way faster than 1440], and outhits anything short of the 40 Super [if you don't count .357 Magnum, .41 Magnum, 10mm, .45 Super, .45 Win Mag., .450 SMC...]. It's on Par with a 44 Magnum [only if 600 ft-lbs = 1200 ft-lbs], not the 357 Magnum [only if 600 is somehow way more than 600?]."

If you want to take personally the fact that you were shown to have made very inaccurate statements, that's your buisness. :roll:

_________________
CastleBravo
Visit The Pit: http://www.geocities.com/mr_motorhead/


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: CastleBravo on 2001-06-13 13:58 ]</font>

 

[jaydee]

On 2001-06-13 13:50, CastleBravo wrote:
Jaydee,

Your post was incorrect. I corrected it. Quoting you yet again in case it wasn't clear the first time 'round:

You seem fixated on being 'right', so Yup... You're the man, you are ALL KNOWING :wink:

"it's way faster than the hottest 10mm [only true if 1450 is way faster than 1440], and outhits anything short of the 40 Super [if you don't count .357 Magnum, .41 Magnum, 10mm, .45 Super, .45 Win Mag., .450 SMC...]. It's on Par with a 44 Magnum [only if 600 ft-lbs = 1200 ft-lbs], not the 357 Magnum [only if 600 is somehow way more than 600?]."

Yup... I was not clear when I posted, my bad... Of course, when I corrected myself, and submitted for your approval, you still want to go back... Maybe I should have edited this, and cover up the poor post, but I choose to admit the fault, and correct my post elsewhere... And your excuse is....

Oh, that's right, you don't have any... Of course, you still spout numbers that are not associated to the link I used for comparison, but that's cool...

I know that there's a TON of load data available from dozens of other manufacturers, and ways to push the pressures to insane levels to achieve a variety of results, but then, we weren't talking about any of that, it was more a simple, rough comparison of one offering (Self Defense loads) in different calibers by one maufacturer (Corbon) since the originator had commented that his

.357sig is putting out 1250+ in my 125gr corbons

and since the topic was 400 Corbons

135gr .400 Cor-bon gets 630fpe out of a 5" tube.

and the response was

sheesh, that's it?

I thought I'd help, slap me upside my head :wink:

If you want to take personally the fact that you were shown to have made very inaccurate statements, that's your buisness. :roll:

Actually, I take very little either personally, or seriously when it comes to intenet forums, and certain people... Principles over Personalities :grin:

While you may feel the statements I made were innaccurate, if you can find info on the page I used to provide as similar a comparison as possible for the relative topics discussed, be my guest...

I'll stop trying to be helpful... Oh, and please, let me know, was there something I did at some point that prompted all this, or are you always fixated on proving your superior intellect over others?



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: jaydee on 2001-06-13 14:50 ]</font>

 

[telackey]

Returning to the topic at hand...your cheapest and easiest way to high energy is to stay in .45 and load it with Cor-Bon or Triton 165gr +P. Trick bullets like the 117gr Aguila or 115gr RBCD (run a search) ammo also yield very high energy numbers, for what that is worth. You could see if you liked them before moving to anything more drastic.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: telackey on 2001-06-13 15:14 ]</font>