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Maybe this isn't the right place to post this but since it's sort of a follow up to something discussed here earlier--

Did my testing this AM with regards to, if you jam a condition one'd 1911 into, ah, something, muzzle first, as in a desperate scuffle where you can't quite get it off safe and trigger a shot, will the safety break or bend from the rearward force on the slide. This test was certainly not very scientific, but it's a start.

Old, cracked PO frame and old slide, old thumb safety. I started out by jamming it into the wall horizontally. It soon became evident that a really meaningful blow might hurt (thanks for the wrist-wrapping advice, Dane). I took it to the wire spool I use as a shooting table and started bringing it down vertically. Pretty soon I was more or less swinging it by the trigger guard to get up some speed. Then I graduated to putting it muzzle-down on the table and hitting the back of the frame with a Dead Blow hammer (small).

In the below pics you can see by the dents in the table that I hit it maybe 75 times, and fairly hard. In this instance it did not break or deform the safety, the slide, nor even the alloy frame, although the crack in the frame went the rest of the way through on the left side. I though about duct-taping a broomstick up the mag chute to see just how far I could go, but I think it would have broken the frame in two, and I do use it as a cutaway sometimes.

Anyhoo-- I think that if it's absolutely the only option, you can strike with the muzzle and have a pretty good chance of the pistol remaining operational.






<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ned Christiansen on 2001-08-09 15:05 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ned Christiansen on 2001-08-09 15:06 ]</font>
 

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Ned, thanks for the entertaining details as we visualized you pounding the petrified sap out of that cable spool table. And, we learned something valuable at the same time.
I'd have never thought to do that test. :smile:

BTW, Ned, your website is worth more visits. It looks great.

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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: tonerguy on 2001-08-09 15:28 ]</font>
 

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...I'll be damned...


Good for you Ned! That's good to know and you're the first person that I know of to actually think as 'round the bend as I do...:wink:

It's actually good to know that a blow or two might get through without stopping the function...
I forgot to ask which safety was in the frame at the time?
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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: gyp_c2 on 2001-08-09 15:45 ]</font>
 

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Ned, good stuff. I have seen the Brown (one) the CMC/Kimber (a half dozen maybe) broken at the pin. The most sturdy IMO are the Wilson, Brown and Colt. Not whitnessed a broken Colt or Wilson. I don't want either on my carry gun though because of either comfort or ease of use. I have seen a hard impact on the muzzle wedge the safety out from the frame and lock up the gun. You have to slam the slide back into firing position from the back to get it back to battery. The safety then may or may not work.

I have found that any ambi including the pinned ones are not as resistant to staying in battery. The male/female fitting doesn't offer enough resistance because of the tolerenece changes to stay in the gun. If you want a gun for CQB on this order pass on a ambi is my suggestion.

Deiter uses a FLGR to elimnate this problem on the CQB guns he suggests for 1st tier groups. Sigs, Berettas and Glocks being the most prevalent I think. Problem with CQB and the 1911 is when the safety comes off. I ride high thumb and teach to disengage when you are going to shoot. That way there is no need for a FLGR to keep gun in battery. But contact shots are not possible either with or with out a FLGR. The real trick is that the hand will have an involentary response under stress to grip the gun. Without a manual safety like a 1911 engaged sooner or later the other guns will go off under harsh CQB techniques.

It is always good to rethink how we intend to use these things.

Great pictures, and topic, thanks!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dane Burns on 2001-08-09 15:50 ]</font>
 
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