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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I finally had the time to start uploading some pics.
Below are some pics of popular 230gr JHP ammo fired into 10% gelatin through one layer of my old denim shirt.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: David DiFabio on 2001-06-17 00:37 ]</font>
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
This photo is a closeup of the Winchester Ranger T 230gr JHP.


_________________
Think, Plan, Train, Be Safe.
Thanks,
David

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: David DiFabio on 2001-06-17 00:35 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: David DiFabio on 2001-06-17 00:36 ]</font>
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
This group from left:

Winchester 230gr Ranger T +P - penetrated 14.5"
Winchester 185gr Silvertip- penetrated 10.3"
Black Hills 230gr Gold Dot +P -penetrated 14.0".
Rmington Golden Saber- core penetrated 12" (shed it's core at 4")







<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: David DiFabio on 2001-12-10 19:28 ]</font>
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
This group from left:
PMC Starfire 230gr JHP (all four rounds tested failed to expand and clogged with denim shirt fibers)-the unexpanded round shown stopped at 20.5", three exited the block.
Winchester SXT 230gr JHP (civillian ammo)
(all 10 rounds tested failed to expand and clogged with denim, I was so suprised I kept testing them as they also sell this round in the Ranger line as the plain non-T model)
All rounds tested failed to expand and exited 22".

Federal 230gr JHP Hydrashock
(one expanded one did not, the expanded bullet penetrated 16.5", the clogged bullet poentrated the entire 22" block and exited into kevlar, notice the slight deformation caused by the backstop)


_________________
Think, Plan, Train, Be Safe.
Thanks,
David

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: david difabio on 2001-06-18 11:05 ]</font>
 

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Boy, I know which one I would pick (Ranger-T, GD 2nd), assuming adequate penetration.

That Ranger-T is @ ~985fps is it not? How is the recoil?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: telackey on 2001-06-17 01:01 ]</font>
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Actually,
The Ranger T routinely clocks over 1,000 fps from my Springfield TRPs.
Recoil is well, subjective- I just don't notice it anymore until we move into the "magnum" and "super" loads.

It is interesting to note that I tested a lot of these rounds and I have tested the Ranger T over 25 times now and I have yet to force it to fail to expand.

For the Hydrashock fans sorry, the load just does not work that well, I have tested it over 15 times now and I routinely see a failure to expand and get these results.

(I should note that the 185gr Hydra Shock is the worst .45acp load I have ever tested.
It routinely fails to expand in unobstructed bare gelatin shots.)

If I had to make a selection my choices are obvious for top two but my third would clearly be the Winchester 185gr Silvertip load.

Sorry, for the mistake these are .44 Magnum and .45acp Hydrashock rounds that impacted a Level 2 Second Chance vest.
These are mislabeled.
I will repost the correct pics for the unexpanded Hydrashock rounds.


_________________
Think, Plan, Train, Be Safe.
Thanks,
David





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: David DiFabio on 2001-06-18 11:14 ]</font>
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Below is a group photo of the Corbon .45acp +P defensive ammo series.
I do not care to start a long debate or re-open the light"fast" versus heavy"slow" subject so I will not comment.
From the left:
230gr+P, pentrated 13"
165gr+P, the furthest "piece" pentrated 7"
185gr+P, the core penetrated 9", the jacket stopped at 5".
200gr+P, the core penetrated 11", the jacket 6" and most of the fragments were in the 7" range.

These loads were alll fired from a 5" barrel into 10% gelatin covered by one layer of denim shirt.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: David DiFabio on 2001-06-17 02:03 ]</font>
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Photo of the Ranger T .45acp non +P used in the "real world".

This photo is of two bullets from two seperate incidents, the bullet on the left was used against in a direct frontal shot against a very large, muscular, and violent attacker armed and intent on killing a deputy sherrif armed with a Sig P220, only one round was fired and the bullet came to rest under the skin outside of the rib cage, the attacker expired instantly.

The bullet on the right was used by a Highway Patrol Officer armed with a Glock model 21 who was thrown backward over a guard rail and in the process of being pummeled in her face when she opened fire and of the seven rounds fired this one made contact and entered through the neck, travled up the spine into the brain and came to rest inside the attackers skull and did not exit.



It is interesting to note the difference between "gelatin" bullets and the "real world" bullets. The Ranger load on the left has literally over expanded in the dense fiberous muscle tissues, the load on the right has fractured all the way to the core against bone.
It was estimated that the load on the left penetrated almost 12" straight through, a light weight fragmenting load would have stopped in the first few inches.







<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: david difabio on 2001-12-10 19:36 ]</font>
 

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Thanks David for the great pics and information. I look forward to more posts like this by you and others, especially in .40 cal.
 

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By the look of most of the hollowpoints that have been illustrated so far with the exception of the SXT Ranger +P you might as well be carrying hardball. It is very helpful to see actual bullets that are used in real life stops to see the differance in performance between gelatin and flesh.

Thanks David,
John
 

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David;
Thanks much for your efforts to put up the pics. Good stuff.

I know one thing I always look for - in fact the main thing - is how far the bullet penetrated. You might consider mentioning the depth (as you did in some) is all the loads as well as the final expanded diameter.

As a general rule (very general, bullets penetrate very inconsistently in people) penetration will be about 25 to 50% less (or even more) in people than in gelatin, unless only muscle tissue is hit.

Thanks again!!!!
Best regards,
Jim Higginbotham
 

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Anyone have any test results of the "non premium" 230 gr. JHP's from Remington, Federal, and Winchester?
 

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I'm kinda' glad I've been carryin' the Gold Dots, I know I won't be carryin' anything less than the 200gr again...Wish I could find some Ranger-T...sniff...


BTW...David...You outdid yourself here...Thanks so much for sharin' this. You are a tenacious devil...aren't you?!
Thanks again!

_________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>g2<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

..!...then, we fight in the shade!..

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: gyp_c2 on 2001-06-18 05:37 ]</font>
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
On 2001-06-17 18:39, Jim Higginbotham wrote:
David;
Thanks much for your efforts to put up the pics. Good stuff.

I know one thing I always look for - in fact the main thing - is how far the bullet penetrated. You might consider mentioning the depth (as you did in some) is all the loads as well as the final expanded diameter.

As a general rule (very general, bullets penetrate very inconsistently in people) penetration will be about 25 to 50% less (or even more) in people than in gelatin, unless only muscle tissue is hit.

Thanks again!!!!
Best regards,
Jim Higginbotham
Jim,
I had a few minutes to spend so I updated each post with the penetration numbers. I don't usually measure the expanded rounds as they can be decieving, for example the 185gr Corbon rounds measure with diameters in the .78" range yet they are very poor performers. Wherein the Golden Saber shed it's jacket so should we measure the core that actually penetrated or the jacket?

IT is also interesting to not from a large amount of data that I have recieved on the .45acp FMJ round how infrequently the round actually exits the body, and in some cases it actually umderpenetrated.
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Shay,
The Pro Load, factory Gold Dot, and Georgia Arms 230gr+P Gold Dot loaded ammunition should all perform equally well.
 
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