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I have a bar-sto 38/45 ACP barrel finally for the dies I bought back in the late 70's early 80's. Any one here loading for this one? If so any ideas for a starting load for paper punching?
This round is the 45 ACP case formed and necked down to 38 caliber.
On Google I have done the following searches with almost no results.
I tried the 45-38 Clarke, 38-45 ACP, 38 Casull, 38-45 Hard Head and 38-45 Safestop. It's easy to find reference to this wildcat in several different forms. However loading data doesn't seem to be included in any of the references. As near as I can tell the 38 Casull, 38-45 Hard Head and 38-45 Safe Stop are made with 45 Win Mag brass to handle higher pressure/hotter loads of up to around 1400-1500fps. I'm really only interested in the low pressure loadings for paper punching with 45 auto brass. I know in the 60's, 70's and possible the 80's there were articles in the popular gun mags on this. I used to have a couple of magazine with a lot of information but they are lost or misplaced. One of them may have been a old handloader magazine from the late 80's.

First we have the 38-45 Auto aka. 45-38 Auto Pistol and the 45-38 Clerke.

The 38-45 Auto was designed by Bo Clerke of the Armory gun shop, Burbank, CA and was first announced publicly in the October, 1963 issue of Guns and Ammo magazine in an article by Howard French. The 45-38 Auto is based on a .45 ACP case necked down to accept standard .357 bullets. Super 38 ACP barrels are reamed out to the new caliber and used in the 45 Colt Auto pistol without any other changes.

The 38-45 Hard Head is nothing more than the 45-38 Auto in a different dress. The 45-38 Auto is based on the .45 ACP necked down to 38 caliber. The 38-45 hard Head is the same thing but instead of using the standard 45 ACP case with it’s 19,900 CUP pressure limit, this one uses the 45 Winchester Magnum or the 451 Detonics case both of which are rated at 38,00 CUP. It allows the use of hotter loads without the danger of case failure.
The idea originated with Dean Grennell, of Gun World magazine fame, who was working on improving the performance of the 1911 Colt auto pistol for some years. The 38-45 Hard Head was fully reported in the November, 1987 issue of Gun World magazine.
Velocities of 1500fps were achieved with a 124-grain bullet from the 5” barrel of a modified 1911 type pistol.
new .38 Casull, A beefed-up and necked-down case to fire 9mm ammo (.356 dia.) from a 1911 type pistol. Casull had designed a new case and beefed-up John Browning’s designed 1911, lengthened the barrel to 6” and he was flying.
 

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40 SUPER brass could be run thru the 38/45 dies, and necked down for .357 bullets. 40 Super brass is HELL FOR STOUT. The .40 SUPER makes the 38 Casull look pretty weak by comparision. A 9x23 with a 124gr. bullet will easily do 1600fps and do it from a comander length slide and barrel. I never saw why a 6 inch slide was needed for a 38 Casull. I''ll see if I can find any of My notes for loadin' data on the 38/45. LIL GUN would be the powder I'd try first. My competition load for My Limited pistol is 10 grs. LIL GUN, 180gr lead bullet, 935fps. To be on the safe side I'd start with 8grs. behind a 124gr. bullet.

Bill Caldwell
 

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WOW!! I'm a year late posting here.

You probably got the 38-45 barrel I missed. I thought I'd pick one up later like I could go to Walmart and get one. I had no idea it was a dinosaur.

I got my brass forming dies in 1975. Because of multiple Military transfers and no money the project has set dormant until last year. I saw the barrel on ebay....I think. A few months later I decided to go to work on the project. NO BARREL. I now have a 9mm barrel and the Clymer 38-45 reamer, I even got a lathe to to help me get this done right. I'm bogged down because I ended up with an industrial lathe and I can't put it in my shop. It's a long story.

I chose to make my own loading dies from steel 357 sig dies instead of the terribly expensive special order dies from RCBS.

I am forming brass from 1971 WW brass and it's working well. I have a few wrinkles in the moth occasionally but I'm sure they will fire form quite well. My plan is to pre-drill the barrel and use the reamer to finish cutting then polishing the chamber. I'd really like to make 3-4 barrels and sets of loading dies to peddle so I can get some return from the money I've spent. LOL

If you are still active on this forum or if anyone else has worked on this project please post a reply. I have two other wildcat 45's I will be working on this year and I will share that information.

Any load information will be appreciated also.

Ray
 

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I found 125 to 145 grn coated lead projectiles sised .356 work well in my gun with the following load's

(1) 5 grains of win 231 125 grn conical with Winchester or Federal primer and reformed Winchester case.

(2) 4.5 grains of Winchester WST 145 grn SWC case and primer as above

(3) 3.8 grains of Winchester AA+ 145 grn SWC case and primer as above

(4) 3.8 grains of ADI AS30N 145 grn swc case and primer as above

(5) 4.5 grains of ADI AP50N 145 grn swc case and primer as above

ALL THESE LOADS WORKED WELL FOR ME AND SHOWED NO SIGN OF EXCESS PRESSURE IN MY SMITH & WESSON 4506 WITH BAR-STO 38/45 BARREL
 

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brettdac,

Wow!!! you tried multiple powders. This is great. My son has some Win231 on the shelf. I have 2 .358 molds that I have run through a .356 sizing die that maintain there lube grooves just fine so all I need is to get the barrel drilled and reamed.
Did you get to run any of these loads through a chrony. Reading back through the previous post, the velocities seem low. These velocities are fine for shooting "CAST BOOLITS" at the range but are they enough to get a hollow point to expand. I have a great load for my 400 Corbon (1911) but the Hornady XTP's don't expand at all. We don't have any gel but we used soaked newpapers for testing. I have tried some 45 ACP Guns and Ammo hot loads and the velocities for the 185gr. half jacket hollow point (Herter's Swage) were at or above 1000fps without signs of high pressures. ( G&A = Approach with caution...) You must use a heavy spring (18-20 lbs) and these loads will rattle a match weapon to field grade in short order. The round will take the web out of a cinder block. It doubles in diameter. (blah-Blah)Wrong subject..........
While most of my shooting is at the range (bottom of the hill in the front yard) this round with proven velocities similar to a 357 Mag could be used for hunting. I don't want to shake my 1911 again so I'm hoping to get the speed out of this round without as much BANG....BOOM is more like it.
Mostly it's just a real blast making this thing basically from scratch and seeing it work. I'll post the outcome of this continuing adventure as I progress.
(Now I wonder if the wife will go along with me driving 480 miles to pick up that South Bend...in her mini van )
Ray
 

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Here are some links that may be of some use,also a bit of back ground.Some years back the Australian Federal Goverment banned the use of any hand gun greater than 38 cal for target shooting,which required conversion to 9mm or 38 super as I owned guns in both 38 super and 9mm 38/45 was the best option at the time.The links go to a forum about a conversion known as 38JWH.It's a 38 Casull clone with a different shoulder angle to get around copywright issues and is ahout 1mm longer than a 38/45 and much heaver case construction.Cases were made by Starline,I have some of these which I have trimmed and reformed back to 35/45 dimensions to make a case known as the 38/45 hard head.I don't have a chrony but the loads I sent you were intended for target shooting and may by a bit tame for other use.My first batch of reformed Winchester cases are at their 15th reloading and still going strong,so pressures must be on the low side.The gun still runs a standard recoil spring I think it's around 12-14 lbs.The JWH loads in the link are around 0.5 of a grain higher than I use but the case is longer and are listed.In standard trim the 38/45 can push 125grn projectiles well over the 1,100fps with ease this is close to 9mm factory hollow point specs.which expand ok so 9mm pills may be the way to go if you need.


http://www.ipsc.org.au

http://www.ipsc.org.au/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=97

http://www.thalesgroup.com.au/handloade ... /index.asp

http://www.rpgfirearms.com.au/WESTCASTINGS.htm
 
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