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As some of you may know I recently bought an SA Champion. I am looking for a good ammo selection for both Alligators and two legged bad guys. I do a fair amount of kayaking and while I havent had trouble with gators I was once a Boy Scout and I like to be prepared. Any ideas on a good utility round for me and my pal the Champ?
 

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As someone who HAS been UC&P with gators on more than one occasion (15+ years doing underwater work in the swamps), I'd strongly recommend the 14000gr. Bowie. :smile: Seriously, you take a shot from too far away, and guess what, you're a criminal. Shoot from close enough to reliably ruin the critter's day, and you have an even BIGGER problem (hint: you're wet, too!). I won't admit to this, but have 'heard' that 125gr .357mag fired from a bang-stick just makes 'em "smile". :grin: You stay out of their way, and they'll steer clear of you, no worries. G'day, mate.

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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: dpcdivr on 2001-04-18 15:47 ]</font>
 

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Seems like I saw some real hunting loads somewhere with a 250gr bullet at about 800fps. I'll have to find it if that interests you?

Drop me a note...
[email protected]

In the meantime, I'll be lookin' for it.

:wink:
 

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how much w231 would it take to push that 14000gn. bowie at 850 fps.? this sounds like the ultimate self defense round. :smile: :smile:
 

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I remember reading a story in Outdoor Life 15-20 years ago about Jim Carmichael shooting a LARGE crocodile (not the same thing, I know). Anyway, he shot a 20-something foot crocodile between the eyes with a .338 magnum, and blew it's walnut-sized brain into pulp in its mouth.

They loaded it onto the boat for the ride across the lake (it was a little bigger than the boat, so they curled it a bit) and set out. Halfway across, the crocodile stopped playing possum, and since it didn't have enough brain left to tell it that it should be dead, it started trashing the boat.

I don't remember how they managed the rest of the ride, but (obviously) they did. Sorry for the ramble.

George
 

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Hey George...I remember that one...I may still have the magazine somewhere. I don't think the boat was a keeper after they were done!
...seems like the critter just got tired and went to sleep. They took off and came back later and tied rocks on it until it sunk to the bottom and drowned...heeheehee

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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: gyp_c2 on 2001-04-30 22:58 ]</font>
 
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I believe the 250 grain load you were referring to may have been the Hornandy 250gr XTP that Hornandy sold through the early 90's.
I have never had to put down an Alligator but I have had issues with Sharks and stopping power. Specifically the Sharks resistance to dying and the ability to live and bite things after taking a round of 12 gauge buckshot at muzzle contact in the skull.
The ships mate ended the ordeal with several sharp blows to the shark's skull with a short base ball bat.


I can say that I would not want to be in the water or on land attemtping to fend off a Croc or an aligator with something as anemic as a pistol.
I would prefer to stock up on that Bowie mentioned earlier with a "barrel" length of 9-11".
 

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Had a friend that liked cave diving, he referred to them as the "ghosts in the grey suits"...

I wouldn't care to look in that vacant, black button, of an eye...not even once...

As far as 'gators...I hear they just bite and back out into the deeper water and hold on 'til you're almost drowned, then start swallowing you...Saw a hunter from LA. shooting them...used a 45-70 lever action Marlin. The little ones were one shot stops(6ft or less) The big ones...well, he said he didn't chase after the big ones much...
 

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Y'all are mixing some 'gator myths with facts. To start with, gators don't have a very big brain, so brain shots are not a good idea. They have a small brain referred to as a primitive reptilian brain. Don't let the description fool you, it just means they are very good at doing what they do, but they don't do a lot of thinking on ethics and math. If a walnut sized piece of brain fell into the gator's mouth, then that was his whole brain, so they guys missed the brain. They probably got muscle tissue that is all around the sides of the brain case, under the eyes, etc. that is used for the jaw muscles. The tissue was probably highly tenderized from being extricated via gunshot, so it might have looked like brains, or then again, the biologists might have known a lot about gators or crocks, but had no real idea what a brain looked like after being extricated via gunshot.

Gators do have dermal ossicles which are porous bony plates that are in the skin (note the bumps or ridges on a gator's back are from these). In the big animals, these plates can be fairly large and so can do some bullet deflecting. They do not make the animal bullet proof any more than your skulls makes your brain bullet proof.

If you get to use a knife on a gator, that means you are close enough to be bitten. That can be a really bad idea as gators can have reflexes quicker than yours. That being said, if a gator does have you, then a knife is a fine tool, but so is a gun.

I have watched gator hunters go after gators for the meat and hide market. When hooked, they don't use big bore rifles unless they have a tremendously big gator. The use a .22 lr and do shoot the head and try to hit the brain. The one advantage these guys have is that they have a stationary gator and a point blank shot, plus their lives are not being endangered when they do it.
 

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You're absolutely right...They don't do much...but they're REAL good at it...Only time I've seen them professionally hunted, like I said, he used a 45-70 after snaggin'em...The next to last thing he wanted was to lose them, the last thing, was goin' in the water with a live one!
:eek:
 
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