[12-34hom]

I have just bought an H&K compact in 357sig, I also had [but sold] a Sig229 in the same caliber.

For some reason i never really liked the Sig all that much. I had an H&K usp in 45acp and liked everything about it. Thats the main reason for purchasing the compact model of the same make.

This weapon will be my CCW gun, whats the consenses here for Factory ammo for this particular caliber? After looking at David Diablo's pictures of Corbons fragmentation of its slugs, that kind of spooked me. I always read and heard good things about thier ammo.

I read that the Texas DPS uses this round and says its penatration is excellent when shooting thru heavier objects. Has anyone here seen or done tests for this caliber that is reliable?

Thanks for any input or answers to my question.

12-34hom.

 

[Guest]

I have done some fairly extensive research, testing, and real world use with the .357Sig and find it to be a cartridge with very high performance combined with an outstanding balance of inherent accuracy and reliability.

I also have a growing database of real world shooting/street results with the .357Sig from several LE agencies and the cartridge does indeed when loaded with the Speer 125gr GD jhp provide very, very good penetration against both hard and soft cover.
The .357Sig by far exceeds the 9mm and available .40S&W performance as a service pistol cartridge and is really beginning to be understood and adopted in rapid fashion.

After reviewing the USSS ammunition testing data and protocol it is fairly easy to see that the USSS wanted the penetration capability but also designed the issue Winchester Ranger Talon loading to be a reduced or controlled penetration round to further control the energy delivery into soft tissues and minimize the possibility for over-penetration.

It would appear that in this regard they were successful as in the first shooting with this combination actual penetration was less than 10" in living tissue.

Depending on my environment and requirements I would choose one of two available rounds;

1. For urban/interior operations and an environment with reduced cover and increased friendly population I would choose the Winchester Ranger 125gr jhp T.

2. For a more suburban environment with the availability and possibility of intermediate and hard cover including automobiles I would choose the Pro Load 125gr GD JHP Tactical loading as the quality, velocity, and energy are higher than the Speer GD loading while they continue to use the truly excellent Gold Dot bullet with very high quality components.

In my personal testing the Pro Load ammo has proven to be remarkably consistent from lot# to lot# and of very high quality.
Easily surpassing Corbon, Triton, and Georgia Arms.

In personal testing the Triton ammo has varied by as much as 45fps from lot# to lot#.
With pressure signs and components changing from lot# to lot#.

I would not under any circumstances recommend the Corbon loadings as they are extremely poor in quality, consistency, and terminal performance.

(It is a shame as at one time Corbon made very good ammo with good components but over the past five years they have since sought out increased profits through the use of cheap bullets and components allowing the end user a serious reduction in capability for the chosen caliber.)

These loadings are not going to prove as effective and will not provide you with the level of personal protection and terminal performance that you are expecting.

The .357 is the only medium platform cartridge available that currently exceeds the performance of both the best 9mm +P+ and the best .40 S&W rounds, it is however a bottle necked cartridge and bottle necked cartridges are not a popular American trend so I would not anticipate that it will be selling in large numbers with the civilian public any time soon.

But, the performance provided by the cartridge in real world shooting results combined with the process of testing and demonstration will easily show it to be a superior Law Enforcement cartridge and this will continue to increase the rate of adoption by both Federal, State, and Local LE agencies over the 9mm, .40S&W and in some cases the .45acp.

Although I should note that in the case of the best .45 ACP loadings the terminal differences between the .357 and .45acp are very slim and I suspect that ease of shooting and platform size with increased capacity would be the expected benefits of such a transition.

 

[12-34hom]

Thank you, most informative. I have had several sources at TFL indacate that Speers 125 grain loading is a very fine performer in this caliber also.

I will order some from both and do some testing myself.

Thanks - 12-34hom.

 

[Guest]

Oh,
I almost forgot, Chrono results from my G32;

1. Pro Load 125gr GD jhp 1,470fps.
2. Winchester Ranger 125gr SXT 1,420fps
3. Speer 125gr GD JHP 1,415fps
4. Remington Golden Saber 125gr BJHP 1,360 fps
5. Triton 125gr Hi Vel 1,425fps
6. Triton 135gr QShock 1,385fps
7. Federal 124gr Premium JHP 1,370fps
8. Federal 150gr Premium JHP 1,085 fps
9. Hornady 124gr XTP 1,370 fps
10. Hornady 147gr XTP 1,230fps

All five round averages, 88 degrees F.
Oehler model 35 P

 

[Clay]

While I have no experience with the .357SIG, I have to agree with David in the fact that ProLoad ammunition is definitely a step above Speer and the others using the Gold Dot bullet.

All of the CorBon ammo that I have tried in the last four years has been lousy, at best.

I tend to place penetration above all else except reliabilty, and so the Gold Dot and the Hornady XTP rounds really appeal to me in all calibers.

 

[die]

Actually, i am carry a Glock 32. I really lliked it. My only problem, and that's is what i want to ask you for opinions, is that i am forced, because of the law here, to load it with FMJ bullets. About it, is very long and hard to explain because there are a lot of view about it (the penal law doesn't say nothing about, only in administrative, but like i said is a thing to long discussions), sufficient to say that my spare magazine are loaded with Hornady 147 XTP, besides, the only JHP ammunition i can obtain here in 357 SIG. Well, my question is, i am very concerned about the penetration capability of the bullet? I live in an urban area, where penetration is not a must. What do you guys think about? Wich caliber offers less penetration in FMJ? I have pistols in 9x19, 40 and 45, and i can consider myself well armed with anyone of it.

 

[Guest]

In FMJ the factors effecting overall penetration depth become dependent upon surface/contact area with bullet shape/profile, velocity, and kinetic energy/ability to do work with momentum/mass in motion.

As to gelatin tests, the 9mm, 40, 45 and 357 all have penetration distances exceeding 20".
I have almost two thousand shootings with .45FMJ and in one the .45 FMJ went through a cinder block wall at point blank range and in others the bullet stopped without overpenetrating the perp's torso.

Of the rounds you have picked the .357 will have the best flatest 100 yard trajectory and the most retained energy at that distance so it could be argued that it may be "more dangerous" for an urban environment but quite honestly I would be "guess-ulating"
to coin a phrase.
My advice is to use a flat point FMJ with subsonic velocity and moderate energy if the law requires you to use military spec ammo.

If you can use ammo that resembles "ball" then I would use Long Bow or Ranger frangible FMJ/compressed copper ammo.

 

[Mute]

David,

Great info as usual. Winchester's Ranger T ammo is not easy to come by. Where could one get his hand on some of this stuff?

 

[NW hunter]

Interesting information David. It's getting time to refresh the Speer 125 GDs I carry... will have to look into the Pro-Load version. They certainly get good press everywhere I go. Might have to do a little exploring since I can't say I remember seeing Pro-Load in any of my local shops.

NW

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: NW hunter on 2001-11-21 15:35 ]</font>

 

[Guest]

Mute,
The Ranger T 357 Sig ammo is fairly scarce on the open market as currently the USSS is the only LEO agency carrying it.

You can pick it up on letterhead or through an LEO distributer.

 

[TLR]

Where is the best place on the web to buy .357 sig ammo?

David, have you posted the results from the shootings you refer too with the .357 Sig? I would be interested in reading this information.

thanks,

 

[Guest]

TLR,
http://www.ammoman.com and http://www.ammovault.com have good prices.

I am so far behind in my writing, requests for info, and current workload that I may never get caught up.

I do intend to post a lot more info as I can get to it.

 

[malomead]

http://www.natchezss.com has S&B for $9.10/50, Speer GD for $9.59/20 and Hornady XTP for $8.90/20.

 

[Clay]

Another view on the 357SIG from DocGKR at TF(Hope you don't mind, Doc!):

"What does the .357 Sig offer which is not already available? Are we missing something?
We have not observed any better performance with the .357 Sig than with the better 9mm loads; the better .40 S&W loads appear to offer superior performance compared with the .357 Sig. Buford Boone at the FBI Academy and I have compared our respective test data on the .357 Sig--our results are nearly identical. The best .357 Sig load appears to be the 125gr Gold Dot JHP. In both the FBI testing and our assessment, it offers virtually IDENTICAL performance as the 9 mm 124 gr +P Speer Gold Dot JHP in both bare gelatin and through the various intermediate barriers. Likewise, the 9mm 147 gr Winchester Ranger Talon JHP offers similar terminal performance. The best that can be said of the .357 Sig is that it equals the 9mm in terminal performance, although at the price of less ammunition capacity along with greater recoil, muzzle flash, and wear on the weapon. Both the .40 S&W and .45 ACP make larger holes in the target and therefore have the potential to more rapidly incapacitate an aggressive adversary in a lethal force encounter. In addition, the greater mass of the .40 S&W and .45 ACP bullets offer an improved chance of defeating an intervening obstacle while still having enough penetration to reach the vital organs of an armed opponent. I fully agree with Mr. Boone when he writes that the .357 Sig is, “Not a great or lousy cartridge, just another choice.”

 

[MichaelOrick]

Just another, not better or best, way to skin the cat?

heavy cloth, steel, glass:

125/357 GD

19/.54, 15/.55, 13/.55

124/9 +P GD

20/.53, 15/.55, 13/.55

230/45 GD

19/.60, 18/.57, 11/.65

230/45 GS

19/.73, 16/.55, 17/.59

 

[N-Frame Guy]

.357 sig ammo

The fact that Pro Load ammo is superior to Speer is relative. Proload does, in fact out do Speer in the velocity department and maybe accuracy but they do not have the sophisticated flash retarded powder that Speer does. Try shooting each at night. the Pro Load will blind you with an eruption of fire but the speer will only give you a glow.