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I am not convinced of the need for checkering the front strap of the combat pistol.I have been up to my elbows in muck and blood and transitioned to a rifle and pistol. In air blood turns to a sticky paste before drying filling checkering. Other body secretions can produce a slick covering on a porus surface via capillary action. The spaces in the checkering actually draw liquids into them. Thus an unstable grip on the weapon could be assumed to compensate, affecting accuracy and gun reliability. Personaly I prefer serration of the front strap and MSH as an aid to grip indexing at stage one of the draw and a mild restraint during recoil.Calthrop.
 

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On 2001-06-20 15:23, calthrop wrote:
Other body secretions can produce a slick covering on a porus surface via capillary action.
I like my guns, but not as much as you must, calthrop. :wink:

Your post is valid, however checkering/serrations/scallops/grip tape are all highly subjective and personal. What works for one may not work for another. I actually prefer NONE of the above, and my working guns have Hogue wraparound rubber finger grooves on them. I find then just slippery enough to re-postion my hand during the draw, but once "locked-in" the gun will not move under any conditions I've encountered.
 

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I feel 30lpi checkering adds more to the cosmetics than actual function. However, 20lpi does bite into your hand and aids in keeping your grip.
 

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Checkering or some sort of added friction on the front strap is a good idea because it does add extra grip to the gun. Take, for example, typical tire road tread versus a slick tire. The slick will not grip as well when wet.

I have worked with checkered front straps, skateboard tape, and smooth front strap guns when I have been very sweaty. With a wet hand, the checkering and tape worked much better for me than the smooth front strap.

As for the issue of blood. Sure, blood does get sticky after a while, but fresh blood is very slick.

As for 20-30 lpi, 20 is wonderful for a few shots. The little pyramids of the checkering dig in very well into my hands, but it doesn't take many rounds before blisters appear. I do better with 30 lip for training, but will still blister after 500 rounds or so. 30 lpi simply does not dig in as far.
 
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I prefer 20lpi very sharp checkering on my 1911s, it is true that it can be painful and I will often start to bleed at around 600 rounds through a typical 2,000 round half day practice session. But I do no want my pistol to move in the hand and sharp, solid, checkering does help to provide a strong solid gripping surface.

I will also say that for me, I also need an undercut front strap and a high grip beavertail on my 1911s or I cannot get a solid grip on them, I have fairly large hands and even with sharp checkering, without the undercutting and beavertail the pistol will shift in my hand.
 

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I may be a little lost on this subject so excuse me if I am. Does this problem with drying liquids happen when using your left hand or right? Maybe if you just switch hands every so often it will go away.
Be extra careful when your eyes start to cross.

JJ

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: JJ on 2001-06-23 00:56 ]</font>
 

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>>I prefer 20lpi very sharp checkering on my 1911s, it is true that it can be painful and I will often start to bleed at around 600 rounds through a typical 2,000 round half day practice session.<<
---------------------------------------------

Obviously you have hired someone to load your magazines because 2000 rds would require approximately 250 loaded mags.
At even 1 minute per mag, that would be 4.16 hours without a break.

If you averaged 1 minute to shoot off 8 rounds that would be another 4.16 hours, a very "hot" pistol and shredded fingers.

Indoors or outdoors?
 

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>>I can load a 1911 magazine in well under a minute; 4 mags/minute would be closer to the actual rate.<<

For some crazy reason I think you're serious.

Have you ever loaded 250 mags and shot those 2000 rounds in half a day?

I can detail strip and reassemble a 1911 in 4 minutes, but I always take my time.
It's the prudent thing to do. lol
 

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I have found that with a lot of practice, my hands toughen up to the 20 lpi checkering on most of my guns. I have recently checkered a pistol at 25 lpi and I like this compromise between the 20 and 30 lpi.

But my hands do start to bleed about 1200 rounds into a 4000 round practice morning.:smile:
 

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Grip texturing is a pretty subjective area, but I think most of us set up our pistols so as to be most effective in the conditions under which they'll be used 99.999999% of the time. If a given grip texture works well for normal dry hands, sweaty hands, in the rain, and in the cold, it'll probably work well enough in the unlikely event of having to use it with blood-covered hands.

Rosco
 
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Lee,

I don't understand your pretext at all,
checkering is not very sharp for people like me who have forged their hands with over 20 years of serious weight training and competitive power lifting on more iron and calluses than I care to admit to, I usually cut them down to keep a good pistol feel. The stippling, and common 30lpi checkering on most of todays show and go guns has the abrasive feel of a wet paper towel.

I would submit that having been involved in real gun battles that actually happened and having been shot/wounded three times I think my practice sessions have taken on a whole new meaning from yours or most other peoples.

Not that it matters but I actually do own more than 300 1911 magazines and I would be glad to run through a practice with you, then maybe I too could shoot 9rds into a nickel size group at 28 yards.....



Edited in the interest of civility.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: david difabio on 2001-06-23 11:35 ]</font>
 

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then maybe I too could shoot 9rds into a nickel size group at 28 yards.....

I liked the unedited version better....and maybe it was silver dollar size groups, hell it could have been grapefruit size groups :grin:

OK, count me a one of the guys who has no need for checkering and wants the gun to be able to move in my hand while shooting if need be.

I have shot 1200 rounds in a LONGsingle day on SHARP 20 and 30 lpi guns. I taped long before I ever thought I'd bleed. Hard to get any training value if you are bleeding and the pain is an issue, BUT just a opinion. One based on personal experience with hand torture performed in the mountain ranges of the world I might add :grin:



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dane Burns on 2001-06-23 11:41 ]</font>
 

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Well geez...it's not to tuff to think that people that work or train with their hands everyday over years could have much different surfaces on their hands. I would think it still falls into a very personal and individual decision. Mine are border line between sandpaper and leather...There are always times when I feel my grip isn't tacky enough and also times it's too much so...For the life of me, I just can't get 100% all the time...What do ya'll do when this happens? Change pistols? Add or remove something? What?
 

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>>Lee,
I would ask that you refrain from posting on topics that you have little to no knowledge<<
---------------------------------------------

Hey David, I can be "civil" and "nice" too without any reference to anyone's credentials.

My experience with firearms and staying alive spans the gamut of spray and pray in Nam where I was wounded in the right forearm and right side (liver and lung) while trying to stay alive at Dak To....to pattycake Bullseye shooting today.

I also started therapeutic treatment with free weights back then and have never stopped....so I do know what rough hands and heavy weight are about....and I think I've lifted my share. LOL
BTW, I use 20lpi checkering on my game guns:))

You, because of a tactical miscalculation and premature conclusions, may consider me to be a "gunshop commando", but I have the same or more real world experience of shooting, dodging and catching bullets than most people....which duly allows me to speak with authority on your referenced subject of the "real world", mayhem and survival.

As an aside, I believe that your hurried opinion would quickly change were we to meet on the mat or the range.

Something I learned a long time ago, my friend...and I pass it on to you...."never" underestimate anyone.
It's the key to survival.

Fall back, regroup and check your coordinates:))

Lee
 
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Opinions vary, you have yours and I have mine. Neither the mat, the street, or the range will ever change them.

People need to go with what they know, you did not know how I practice, why I practice in the manner that I do or even when I practice and you were wrong to post on my practice sessions and I was wrong in my "snide" reply and that is why I edited it before submitting it for everyone else to see.
I have little interest in engaging in a "flame" thread or letting this become more than it is.

If you are also a free weight person then you know exactly what I reference about Olympic bars, knurling, and how checkering feels in the hand, most heavy lifters have callouses thick enough to scratch polished wood.

Agree, disagree, form your own opinions but do not make disparaging remarks about myslef or the topics that I am honestly answering or trying to answer. I am not an expert, nor do I claim to be, I answer the posts honestly and without reserve, if I fail to say it in the "Cool" or popular way then so be it.

Fair is as fair does and if I am wrong then I am, and I am ok with that, but no part of my defensive equipment philosophy is adlibed.
I have nothing to gain or profit from any of this and only time to give, take it for what it is, nothing more, nothing less.
 

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Oh good gravy, isn't it funny how everybody on the internet is Billy Bad Ass and yet has the most delicate ego this side of a Prima Ballerina? :roll:

Put 'em back in your pants, Tough Guys, and let's try to stay somewhat on topic. That was... oh yeah, *checkering*. :grin:

Personally, I dislike checkering. For me, the discomfort it causes isn't worth the improvement in the grip. Serrations are OK and seem to help somewhat, but neither one seems to make that big a difference to me as far as how well I grip the gun. Good grip panels are more important to me.

Do I really have to give my manliness credentials every single time I express an opinion lest it be ASSUMED that I'm some kinda tea-sipin'-with-pinky-extended momma's boy? If you must know, just go to my website and click on "Feed My Ego."

_________________
CastleBravo
Visit The Pit: http://www.geocities.com/mr_motorhead/

P.S. The marksmanship badge on my uniform is "Expert Pistol." And the link really IS called "Feed my Ego." :grin:

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: CastleBravo on 2001-06-23 12:39 ]</font>
 
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