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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I would like to have a nationally known smith (Vickers, Heinie, Burns, Novak, Brian, etc.) build a full house custom for me in in the near future. I own a Colt 1991A1 (NIB). Some one told me that I should trade it for a SA milspec. He said it's a better platform for a smith to do his magic. True? Thanks, Sam
 

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Greetings :grin: Any pistolsmith has a favorite to build on. My favoritre is the gun with the least amount of "problems" IMO that will need to be fixed. SA has the thick dust cover and grip frame. Colt has a few problems with the Series 80 parts, Kimber has dbl slide serrations and a limit as to what can be done with the sights. Older Series 70s are built to a tolerence level I find unacceptable when compared to what is available today.

Tha said, of the guns I actually use today, my primary gun is a Springfield, my favorite personal gun a lightly customized Colt Series 80 in stainless. If I get a chance to build one for myself it will be a Caspian slide and a Jericho frame.

No one is going to turn down a Series 80 I suspect. Some might even agree with your advice. Given a 1991 or a GI Springfield...to me at least, it is a toss up. Either can be made into a very nice pistol.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks Dane. I actually have been looking for a deal on a LNIB Colt series 70. Maybe I should be happy with my series 80 and get on with it, even with those ugly roll marks. I've read that Colt is changing the roll marks for the better. We'll see. Again thanks Dane. Sam
 

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Sam,
All of the pistolsmiths you metioned would do a great job, I'm sure. But, you used the words "near future". If you want a full house custom job by these guys. You gonna have to wait. I'm talking at least a year possibly.

Just my $.02

PS-It's a well known fact Dane seems to prefer working on Kimbers, and Larry Vickers likes Springfields.
 

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I've seen the new roll marks on a new 91A1, they look ALOT nicer... kind of like the small-letter Series 70, complete with pony. The finish seems alot nicer too, at least on the one I saw.

As an aside, bear in mind that "full house" means different things to different people. By my math you can get a basic gun up to speed from a functional point of view (comprehensive trigger job, better sights, match barrel fitted, very complete reliability package) for ~$900 + base gun. With that kind of investment, you get a piece that, in terms of bullet-on-target performance, will probably be the equal of just about ANYTHING. If you want all the goodies, of course, expect to spend more like $2,000 + base gun. If you want **perfection** that's $3,000+. :grin:

So I say stick to the Colt, there is no reason to get something else. You can always have the ugly 1991A1 ground off entirely, which is what I'd do.

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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: CastleBravo on 2001-10-20 11:04 ]</font>
 

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My advice, for what its worth, is to choose your 'smith first...and turn him loose. If you have the money for a full house custom, I would want [and have received from Dane] what he considers to be the best...without having them work around a platform.

This is not to say the great ones can't build a great one on whatever you send them, they can and will. On a full house I wanted no compromises, figure if he has to do the painting...let him choose the canvas that suits him best.
 

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PS-It's a well known fact Dane seems to prefer working on Kimbers, and Larry Vickers likes Springfields.
I am going to bust on Monty a bit here. I refrained from saying exactly what Dick Heiine or Larry Vickers prefer. I actually did know what both prefered at one time. It may have changed by now. If it were me I would call them up...either will answer the phone and ask them. I suspect it is the same from Novak's.

That said, of the guns I actually use today, my primary gun is a Springfield, my favorite personal gun a lightly customized Colt Series 80 in stainless. If I get a chance to build one for myself it will be a Caspian slide and a Jericho frame.
Now where do you read in my quote anything about Kimber. I don't shoot a Kimber myself, don't own a personal Kimber, and am not building myself a Kimber now or in the future. I thought it was clear that I PREFER to build on a Caspian slide and a Jericho (which includes Wilson, CMC, Nowlin and of course Kimber) frame. If I was not clear hopefully it is now.

There is a reason I do an great deal of work on customer's Kimber guns. First they are sold at a very good price point. Second that are a very good value for the money and third the guns work out of the box generally.

The down side to Kimber is cosmetic for me. I prefer working on 1911s. The best buy in 1911s IMO are the Kimber guns. They are NOT my first choice for a gun to build a full custom gun on.

If I get a chance to build a custom 1911 for myself it will be a Caspian slide and a Jericho frame.
Hopefilly that is cleared up, AGAIN :grin:

Best advice given here is from Bruce, who said call your smith of choice up and ask him to build you a gun. My suggestion is don't ask them to build something that is out of their ordinary venue and choose the style you prefer from all our comparative wares. That way you'll both (customer and smith) will get satisfaction and enjoyment from the end product.

Just to add to this a bit from the original question:

Some may know this or not but I have a serious fetish about big bore bolt guns. :grin: I have built a number myself but realised that the level of rifle I wanted was beyond my time and experience. I started working with Mike Kizler who has both the experience and ability to build as good of rifle as anyone alive today. I have had several rifles from the likes of Rigby, Westley Richards, Griffin & Howe and Dakota besides other name rifle smiths.

By the time I met Mike I knew a little about rifle making and even more about the rifles I wanted made. Between the two of us I now own the finest rifle I have ever owned. I have 3 more coming from Kizler. I have no doubt that all will be as good as or better than the one I have beside my desk at the moment. The only mistakes in this rifle, a VZ-24 in 9.3x62, are the design flaws I made when ordering the rifle. The same mistakes Kizler warned me about originally. Imagine that :grin: The best guns are a design collaboration of the end user and the smith. But a smart end user would listen intently to the preferences of a good smith.

My next three rifles won't have the design flaws. I'll let the smith do what he does best :grin:






<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dane Burns on 2001-10-20 14:11 ]</font>
 

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So what you are saying, Dane, is that a Colt Delta Elite is the best platform to build a custom on, right? :grin: :grin: :grin:
 

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Geez...CB you need another Delta Elite...
...Here's CB thinking about the Delta Elite he just "saw" that someone "else" owns...
 

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Hey, I never claimed to be SANE! Remember, the customer is always right... at least to his face... even if he is a raving loon. :razz:

*puff* *puff*

WOW, man, I'm seeing sounds and smelling colors...

*puff* *puff* ***KOFF***KOFF***

Uh... duuuuude.... now I'm seein' ten milimeter Colts... and my keyboard is melting... *drool* ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzz
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<font size=-1>[ This Message was slobbered on by: CastleBravo on 2001-10-20 14:30 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: CastleBravo on 2001-10-20 14:31 ]</font>
 

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Who is Jericho, and is it possible to buy one of their frames.
Jericho is the parent company that manufactures Kimber, Wilson, CMC and Nowlin frames and slides. All the frames but CMC are currently available from Brownell's.
 

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Dane,

All the frames but CMC are currently available from Brownell's.
This one caught me by surprise. My latest Brownell's catalog still lists the CMC frame sets. I knew some changes were afoot at McCormick's but what is really going on here? More to the point, are these frames still available from CMC?

Chuck
 

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"The customer is always right" ...

Something to keep in mind is that you should only have work done by a Gunsmith that you have the utmost respect for - respect for the skill/knowledge as well as the strength of character. We'd do well then to listen to the advice given :smile:.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
The Colt 1991A1 with the new roll marks sure would look pretty after a good smith has done his magic. Sam
 

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If you're going for a full house (and, presumably sinking a lot of money into it) why start with a 1991 or mil-spec? A kimber, Colt XSE, or even (if you want a nice tight gun with "Colt" on it) one of the 1911a1 reproductions?

I still think building up from frame/ slide is the best bet, but was just curious.
 

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This one caught me by surprise. My latest Brownell's catalog still lists the CMC frame sets.
Sorry Chuch my mistake. CMC has raised their prices to an unreasonable level IMO. They are still available through Brownell's. As are the Wilson's. Nowlin is direct. My apologies for the bad info.
 

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The idea of starting with a very basic gun for a custom is that since you are going to replace all the guts of the base gun anyway, why spend more?
 

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Dane,

Sorry if I offended you. I guess I should have phrased my statement:"Dane sure does work on a whole lot of Kimbers!"

Is that better? I assumed we were talking about what you usually worked on. Not realy what you liked to carry for yourself.

As for the Vickers statement, I read somewhere that he does lots of work on Springfields.

Touchy, Touchy!

Dane, I think you hit the nail right on the head here. I agree that the prospective customer should talk to a good pistolsmith about what they want/need, and what the 'smith thinks. Lord knows, guys like you, Mr. Heinie, and Mr. Vickers have much more experience and insight than the rest of us!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Monty Grubbs on 2001-10-23 08:51 ]</font>
 
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