Pistol Smith Forum banner
1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm a 10mm Auto fan and have been thinking about picking up a Paraordnance .40 S&W P.16 and converting it to 10mm. I know this has been done before, but I have a few questions. First off, is the basic Paraordnance gun strong enough for full-power 10mm loads? Secondly, what all needs to be changed besides a new barrel and heavier recoil spring? Any other insights or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
431 Posts
I talked to a customer service rep at Wilson that had won the Limited Nationals in the early '90's with a 10mm Para.

It will absolutely handle the difference in pressure.

Many have made this conversion and I am sure it will work well for you.

Good luck, have fun, and tell us about it when you're done.

You might enjoy looking at my webpage- there is a 10mm Para Open gun on it.

Brent
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
156 Posts
I have a SVI hicap gun with a .40 barrel and a 10mm barrel. If I want to change from one to the other, it's merely a matter of switching barrels. Of course if I want to shoot full power 10mm, I use heavier springs.

The 1911 design has no problems handling 10mm, if properly sprung and shock buffed. I have a Delta Elite with somewhere around 10k through it. Perhaps 1/2 of the round count was "full power".

As to the Para 10mm conversion, I recommend getting a 10mm barrel fitted to the gun, instead of having the .40 barrel reamed out to 10mm. This way you can still shoot .40 (MUCH CHEAPER) with the stock barrel, and having the new barrel fitted to the gun will make it more accurate.

I'm not sure what the max OAL you can load a 10mm out to and still fit it in the para mag, but most 10mm factory ammo is loaded to between 1.250 and 1.260. In my SVI, that is too long and factory 10mm ammo won't work in the SVI mags unless I load it to 1.245 or less. Again, I'm not sure how long you can load 10mm to make it work in Para mags but this is something you should definitely find out beforehand. Perhaps someone else can answer this question?

As to Paras in general, their quality control has been an issue. I had a P14 which had many problems with parts breakage: firing pin, barrel bushing, extractor, and I've seen several other paras used in IPSC break barrel links. Other things to watch for are oversized and mislocated sear pin holes and hammer pin holes. Also ensure the barrel is locking up with good lug engagement - many of them have very minimal lug engagement.

SF
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for the info guys. You've got me teetering on the fence! I think I would probably go with a second barrel and have it fitted. That would then give me a two-caliber gun.

I was thinking about writing Paraordnance and asking if they would consider bringing out a limited run of P16.10/40 guns with both barrels. Maybe half of them could be of the "Limited" configuration and half set up for CCW (yeah it would be a big gun, but what the hell). Any idea on how many would need to be made to make it profitable? Anybody else out there interested?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
156 Posts
Ain't gonna happen in this lifetime. Although the 10mm has developed a cult following, there simply isn't near enough the demand to justify Para doing this. Besides, judging on past Para quality, you'd be better off buying a P16 and having a 10mm barrel fitted to it.

As to Para, is there any way I can talk you out of buying one? Quality, durability, fit and finish of Para is vastly inferior to Kimber, SA, and Colt. If you want a doublestack, save up and buy an STI or SVI.

SF

"I was thinking about writing Paraordnance and asking if they would consider bringing out a limited run of P16.10/40 guns with both barrels. Maybe half of them could be of the "Limited" configuration and half set up for CCW (yeah it would be a big gun, but what the hell). Any idea on how many would need to be made to make it profitable? Anybody else out there interested?"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
SF, I have zero experience with either STI or SVI. I would expect though, that building a 10mm double stack from the ground up on one of these frames would be more expensive than just converting a Para P16. Of course I'm a big believer in "you get what you pay for." Are hi-caps still available for the STI/SVI guns? If so what would the capacity be in 10mm and how much are they going for these days?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
896 Posts
Please remember that there are lots of us our there that have had great luck with Paras, including P16s, and even a few of us have converted P16-10mm's that we use with great success. Lemons come in all brand names. I know, I know...and I've heard it all before. :smile:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I have a Para P12 that I have had customized and I'm very happy with it. I have heard of various problems with Paraordnance pistols though. From what I've heard it's not so much that they are bad guns, but rather quality control isn't very consistent and so one gun may be great while the next could be a real POS. The good thing about starting with a Para "Limited" P16 would be that it would already have a lot of the features that I would want included on a base pistol, and at a pretty good price to boot. The down side is that you don't know if you're going to have to spend the money on tuning the Para that you had hoped to save by buying it in the first place. If I were to go the STI/SVI route I would probably want to go whole hog and build it as a competition gun which is going to make it very expensive. If I stay with the Para I could probably (read hopefully) keep my total cost down.

I'm still sitting on the fence guys. Please somebody give me a shove!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
520 Posts
I have had experience with 3 Para Limiteds; 2 new, stainless P-14.45's and one used, blue P-16.40. The first .45 was stellar, which is why I bought its twin 4 months later. That gun was crap.

The used P-16 shoots accurately and reliably. Mags for both are available.

So, the Para question becomes "Do you feel lucky today - Punk?

If you buy a basic SVI (no such thing as a "plain" SVI), you will pay about twice as much. You will also get to specify items Para doesn't dream of, if you wish; trigger lenght, shape, and color for example. It will work, and will probably have far better resale value than a Para/Kimber/Colt/SA.

I dare say it would prove a much better platform for a race gun, should you so choose. This is also reflected in resale value. I suggest you click onto the website and get lost in all those pretty pictures and mind-boggling options.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,580 Posts
G

·
The Para conversion will work, I have done two of them and am in the process of helping Mark Garrity put together another one.

I also own a SS STI 10mm custom double stack and with most jhp loads they will fit and cycle in the gun.

FWIW,
The STI would be my first choice as my gun has the heavy dust cover and it was less expensive to start with the frame kit and purchase the componenets instead of needing to purchase a new Para and dump most of the parts.

(FYI, George Smith @ EGW did the
Barsto barrel fit into the frame as it took a lot of machining as I will not use a 10mm ramped barrel.
The Barsto sits deep in the STI frame, this was necessary as I used unmachined open slide/frame parts as I wanted a very tight/silcky fit as I often use some very heavy pressure 10mm custom loads).

Also the STI 140 mags with Aeradondo followers hold 20rds of 10mm, the 170mm mags with Aeradondo followers hold 25rds of full power 10mm.

With 19 in the gun and 75rds riding in my custom Galco Presidential/Kevlar brief case that is some pretty compact handheld potential.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
On 2001-11-08 14:18, CastleBravo wrote:
How's this for a shove: Dane Burns will sell you a new .40S&W Kimber converted to 10mm for $850.
Hey there CB, I saw this over on Glock Talk a little while back. I've never owned a Kimber and have been looking for an excuse to do so, but I already have a Colt Delta Gold Cup and so I was looking for something in a doublestack. Now that I think about it, doesn't Kimber have a polymer doublestack gun? Do they offer it in .40 S&W? Are there hi-cap mags available for it? Hmmmmm, another possibility!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
87 Posts
On 2001-11-09 15:02, Number 6 wrote:
You can also buy mag tubes from the factory.
Yes, you can. However, if you build new magazines with the mag tubes, you're breaking federal law. The mag tubes are for replacement of damaged pre-ban mag tubes only. I know nobody here would break Federal law by manufacturing new hi-cap magazines from parts. I just thought I'd mention this for new people who might get the wrong idea.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
71 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Just thought I'd stir the pot a bit more. I think I'm leaning towards the Para P16 conversion as the STI/SVI is just too far beyond my means for the present time (new baby and wife on second year's leave of absence). If I do go with the Para that's around $800 or so for the base gun, plus a couple hundred more for hi-caps (just can't get enough of those). Then add to that about $200 for the new recoil spring, 10mm barrel and having it fitted. At this point I'm thinking, "Well for that much I could pick up a Glock 20 or 29, plus a Witness 10mm and even have some cash left over for a little fine tuning on the Witness." The more I try to whittle down my options the more options I seem to come up with!

Paten, thanks for the reminder about the hi-cap mag tubes. I had to ask about this myself, but there are people even greener than me on the subject and it's a good idea to clarify what is and isn't legal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Nordic - I have been wondering the same thing these past few days - whether a .40 slide assembly would fit their polymer. This would be a basis for Dane Burns to create a hi-cap, 1911 style, 10mm (three great virtues) pistol.

Castle or anyone else - do you know if this slide and frame combination will work?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
I recently bought a used P1640E for $500 with the intention of switching it to 10mm. The mags have no problem taking the Winchester STHP I stuffed into them. I think I'll go with a KKM Precision barrel and bushing. Which recoil spring are you thinking of using?
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top