i'm in the market for a new 1911, i have narrowed my choices to wilson's CQB or Baer's thunder ranch special. i'm actually leaning towards the wilson at this point. but i want to hear from people who have some experience with both or just one. another selling point for me will be when i call them to order, is how i'm treated on the phone. thanks , mike
CQB or TRS
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Suggest you contact either Terry Peters of P&T Partners or Allen Yoast for factual information, great treatment and fair prices. Either of the above gentlemen may have one or both of the pistol you are considering in stock for immediate delivery which is a big plus. Both also reside in Texas too.
Good shooting,
Dean
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dean Gamburd on 2001-06-15 15:49 ]</font>
Good shooting,
Dean
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dean Gamburd on 2001-06-15 15:49 ]</font>
I have a CQB. Bought it from Terry Peters. Great guy to deal with. From what I've read, the CQB and TRS are very close to one another. My CQB has been excellent and Wilson's customer service is also excellent. Probably can't go wrong with either. I leaned towards Wilson's because of their customer service and lifetime warranty. Not a bad product either.
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325 Posts
Sir, I was in this same dilemna about a week ago. I ended up ordering the TRS but it was a close call. What it finally came down to for me was that I already knew I wanted a standard thumb safety and I would have had to pay to have it switched out on a wilson. However, I have since learned that there are at least two concerns with a baer gun. The first is heat treatment, that information is posted on other threads in this site, a search will bring them up. The second is warranty and customer service. My understanding is that Wilson has Baer beat in that department. So, I may have made a mistake. Basically I am a willing victim of advertising. I figure if the gun is what was specified by Clint Smith then that is good enough for me. That's really kind of silly since I don't even know the man. I do like the way he writes and I also like the fact that he sees what works and what breaks just about everyday. If you are anywhere near Virginia you are welcome to put a few hundred rounds through mine before you decide. I live in Sterling, about 15 minutes from Dulles Airport. Drop me a private message if you live near here and I'll hook you up. Only stipulations are that you must shoot factory ammo through it and I have to be there with you. Also, I won't even have it for about 10 more days, so if the money is burning a hole you may have yours, whatever it is, before I have mine. Please let us know what you decide on and how it comes out. Jake Salyards
Mike357,
Although I am not an owner of either a Wilson or Les Baer gun, I am a chronic/addicted forum reader. From reading thousands of opinions and experiences from shooters, I watch for a pattern. Any maker can have an unhappy customer or 2, or put out a lemon now and then. But watching the overall pattern of posts by Wilson and LB owners, there is no question. If it were me I'd definitely go with Wilson, even though the CQB has a spray & bake finish that some owners hate. The gun can be refinished with something else if you don't like the Armor Tuff, or whatever it's called.
Just an observers opinion
Although I am not an owner of either a Wilson or Les Baer gun, I am a chronic/addicted forum reader. From reading thousands of opinions and experiences from shooters, I watch for a pattern. Any maker can have an unhappy customer or 2, or put out a lemon now and then. But watching the overall pattern of posts by Wilson and LB owners, there is no question. If it were me I'd definitely go with Wilson, even though the CQB has a spray & bake finish that some owners hate. The gun can be refinished with something else if you don't like the Armor Tuff, or whatever it's called.
Just an observers opinion
I have both a CQB and a TRS. For a defensive type carry gun to use, I vote for the Wilson CQB. Here's why: TRS has sharper edges and is hard on your hands in a situation like a defnsive 2 or 4 day class where you shoot 400 rounds a day. The CQB has a nice dehorning job and is much easier on the hands, clothing, holster, etc. The TRS requires a break-in period of about 700-1,000 rounds to get to a point where you can press check or cycle the slide easily. The CQB is ready to go right from the box and does not loosen up even after 4,000 rounds now. My TRS will not function properly with a shock buff in it. My CQB will run with one in it and I cannot tell the difference. As far as customer service, Wilson has numerous people you may contact on the phone and all have been helpful to me in both service and parts. If you call Les Baer Co., you will probably get the same female every time you call. She usually has to go and ask someone else something and I never seem to get past her. You can also tell what kind of day she is having by the way she answers the phone.
Baer's customer service and parts ordering seem to be somewhat limited. Both guns shoot great. Both guns are very well made. Both guns are similar in balance, feel, etc. I would even have to give the advantage to the TRS for having a superior finnish. The Wilson Armor Tuff coating is an absolute joke. But there is just something about holding and shooting my CQB that I really prefer. It just feels more comfortable and more like a combat reliable defensive tool that I would stake my life on any day of the week. I prefer the more open or more coarse slide serrations of the CQB. I do not like fine serrations like the TRS has. Even though the CQB costs slightly more and has an inferior finnish, it is still my first choice.
Baer's customer service and parts ordering seem to be somewhat limited. Both guns shoot great. Both guns are very well made. Both guns are similar in balance, feel, etc. I would even have to give the advantage to the TRS for having a superior finnish. The Wilson Armor Tuff coating is an absolute joke. But there is just something about holding and shooting my CQB that I really prefer. It just feels more comfortable and more like a combat reliable defensive tool that I would stake my life on any day of the week. I prefer the more open or more coarse slide serrations of the CQB. I do not like fine serrations like the TRS has. Even though the CQB costs slightly more and has an inferior finnish, it is still my first choice.
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119 Posts
Mike357,
The way I see it, this comparison is much like Ford vs Chevy, Remington vs Winchester, Purdey vs H&H. Both Wilson and Baer have their proponents and both have their detractors. I will try my best to be objective and speak from first hand experience.
I have a Baer TRS with about two thousand rounds through it. I had exactly four failures to feed during my first range session with it, ALL of which were with cartridges reloaded with AMERC brass. After culling the offending cases from my ammo bag, I have experienced absolutely NO problems with the pistol. I have found it to be 100% reliable in every way. I hasten to add that it has one of the best triggers I have encountered on a 1911, and I am VERY picky about triggers. My example is also extremely accurate.
On one occasion I called Les Baer to discuss loads and was connected with Les himself. I found him to be a perfect gentleman. Contrary to dogma, but my experience regardless.
If you were to ask me if I would buy another TRS, I would answer "yes" without hesitation and strongly encourage you to call Allan Yoast. He is one of the most pleasant individuals I have ever dealt with.
On the other hand, :smile: , my next purchase in the semi custom market will almost surely be a Wilson CQB. During the recent Advanced Tactical Pistol class in Atlanta, Ken Hackathorn was shooting one and I've concluded that Ken has forgotten more about 1911's than I will ever know. Ken also mentioned that Larry Vickers shoots a CQB when he is without one of his own pistols. Pretty strong recommendations, no?
Bottom line: would I buy another TRS? Absolutely! Would I buy a CQB? Absolutely!
Sorry if I haven't made it any easier for you, but you might choose to think of it as a win/win situation. Buy the one that appeals to you on a gut level.
If you have any specific questions, E-mail me. I'd be pleased to answer them.
The way I see it, this comparison is much like Ford vs Chevy, Remington vs Winchester, Purdey vs H&H. Both Wilson and Baer have their proponents and both have their detractors. I will try my best to be objective and speak from first hand experience.
I have a Baer TRS with about two thousand rounds through it. I had exactly four failures to feed during my first range session with it, ALL of which were with cartridges reloaded with AMERC brass. After culling the offending cases from my ammo bag, I have experienced absolutely NO problems with the pistol. I have found it to be 100% reliable in every way. I hasten to add that it has one of the best triggers I have encountered on a 1911, and I am VERY picky about triggers. My example is also extremely accurate.
On one occasion I called Les Baer to discuss loads and was connected with Les himself. I found him to be a perfect gentleman. Contrary to dogma, but my experience regardless.
If you were to ask me if I would buy another TRS, I would answer "yes" without hesitation and strongly encourage you to call Allan Yoast. He is one of the most pleasant individuals I have ever dealt with.
On the other hand, :smile: , my next purchase in the semi custom market will almost surely be a Wilson CQB. During the recent Advanced Tactical Pistol class in Atlanta, Ken Hackathorn was shooting one and I've concluded that Ken has forgotten more about 1911's than I will ever know. Ken also mentioned that Larry Vickers shoots a CQB when he is without one of his own pistols. Pretty strong recommendations, no?
Bottom line: would I buy another TRS? Absolutely! Would I buy a CQB? Absolutely!
Sorry if I haven't made it any easier for you, but you might choose to think of it as a win/win situation. Buy the one that appeals to you on a gut level.
If you have any specific questions, E-mail me. I'd be pleased to answer them.
I am aware of the Wilson offer to refinnish although I have not called and been told this myself. I'm just really ticked off that I even have to on a $1,850.00 gun. Will they reimburse me for the $34.00 overnight shipping charge I must incur to get the gun back to them? Will they return it to me shipped at their expense? How about a loaner to use for the (guessing) several weeks it takes to refinnish my gun? Knowing the customer dissatisfaction that is increasing with each passing day, why do they continue to use this finnish?
To get back to the original question, I still thik the CQB is my choice... but order one with a finnish other than Armor Tuff.
To get back to the original question, I still thik the CQB is my choice... but order one with a finnish other than Armor Tuff.
Joined
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38 Posts
Robe hit the nail on the head...sorta :wink:
First off, my vote is for the CQB. While I don't own a TRS, I did own a Premier 2 for quite awhile. There is no comparison if you are looking for a carry gun, or one that you will spend and practical shooting time on the range. The Baer gun will treat your hand like you have been handling a cheese grater. The CQB is a joy to shoot. Mine was reliable right out of the box, and so was the 2 that a close friend bought.
Robe made a good point....order the gun the way you want. As of late, WILSON's seems to be getting guns out pretty quick, and it was worth the wait for me to upgrade my CQB with all the BULLET PROOF parts, and the Tool Steel hammer and sear. Also, I spec'd the WILSON semi wedge mainspring housing. But I did want the gun with ARMOR TUFF. I LIKE THE FINISH. Its been great for a carry gun, not a show piece. Mine has been carried nearly everyday for the last 2 months, and I have NO corrosion, and VERY limited wear. I would have had ALOT more wear from a blued gun at this point. I know this from past 'carry gun' experience. I'm happy with ARMOR TUFF, some people aren't. But the good news is WILSON's stands behind their product like nobody in the business, which should make you feel comfortable with chosing a CQB.
_________________
Stay Sharp!
Will Fennell
Camillus Cutlery
http://www.camillusknives.com
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Will Fennell on 2001-06-15 20:38 ]</font>
First off, my vote is for the CQB. While I don't own a TRS, I did own a Premier 2 for quite awhile. There is no comparison if you are looking for a carry gun, or one that you will spend and practical shooting time on the range. The Baer gun will treat your hand like you have been handling a cheese grater. The CQB is a joy to shoot. Mine was reliable right out of the box, and so was the 2 that a close friend bought.
Robe made a good point....order the gun the way you want. As of late, WILSON's seems to be getting guns out pretty quick, and it was worth the wait for me to upgrade my CQB with all the BULLET PROOF parts, and the Tool Steel hammer and sear. Also, I spec'd the WILSON semi wedge mainspring housing. But I did want the gun with ARMOR TUFF. I LIKE THE FINISH. Its been great for a carry gun, not a show piece. Mine has been carried nearly everyday for the last 2 months, and I have NO corrosion, and VERY limited wear. I would have had ALOT more wear from a blued gun at this point. I know this from past 'carry gun' experience. I'm happy with ARMOR TUFF, some people aren't. But the good news is WILSON's stands behind their product like nobody in the business, which should make you feel comfortable with chosing a CQB.
_________________
Stay Sharp!
Will Fennell
Camillus Cutlery
http://www.camillusknives.com
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Will Fennell on 2001-06-15 20:38 ]</font>
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709 Posts
Robe,
Really liked the details you gave in your comparison of the TRS and CQB. Very helpful.
Really liked the details you gave in your comparison of the TRS and CQB. Very helpful.
G
Guest
·I had prepared a nice long posting explaining the merits I have found with each pistol.
My PC decided to crash (XP Beta, I know don't use it...) and I lost the article.
So I will keep it short and sweet, as to the issue with Les Baer customer service I have been a customer all the way back to the original custom guns on Springfield frames and Les himself will more often than not be the person on the other end of the phone answering my "poignant" questions.
I also own several original Wilson guns from way back when Bill actually built guns including the one of the original CQB models with the tapered heavy cone barrel and parkerized finish. I also own two full size "new" CQB pistols and one "new" compact
Models.
Early last week I was browsing this site and read Allan Yost's ad for a NIB Hard chrome TRS pistol, I sent Allan an email explaining it was sold and a few days later he notified me that it had been shipped and what the pistol cost me.
Today, I took it to the range for one of the best pistol sessions I have ever had 1,632 rds later 408 of which were Black Hills 230gr+P JHP and 1,224 Speer Lawman ball rounds later the results are in:
Best group with "ball" ammo .78" @ 25 yards handheld.
Malfunctions 0
Jams 0
The first 408 rds were fired in extremely rapid double taps as fast as the gun could be fired using 36 Wilson 8 round mags and 12 Wilson 10rd mags @ 10 yards, group size was 4" and I am sure I did not miss the other 350 times.
I do not shoot this well!
In short my opinion is as follows, tomorrow my dealer will have three semi-new Wilson CQB pistols for sale they are not even on the same playing field and if anyone has NIB hard chrome TRS for sale please email me immediately!
My PC decided to crash (XP Beta, I know don't use it...) and I lost the article.
So I will keep it short and sweet, as to the issue with Les Baer customer service I have been a customer all the way back to the original custom guns on Springfield frames and Les himself will more often than not be the person on the other end of the phone answering my "poignant" questions.
I also own several original Wilson guns from way back when Bill actually built guns including the one of the original CQB models with the tapered heavy cone barrel and parkerized finish. I also own two full size "new" CQB pistols and one "new" compact
Models.
Early last week I was browsing this site and read Allan Yost's ad for a NIB Hard chrome TRS pistol, I sent Allan an email explaining it was sold and a few days later he notified me that it had been shipped and what the pistol cost me.
Today, I took it to the range for one of the best pistol sessions I have ever had 1,632 rds later 408 of which were Black Hills 230gr+P JHP and 1,224 Speer Lawman ball rounds later the results are in:
Best group with "ball" ammo .78" @ 25 yards handheld.
Malfunctions 0
Jams 0
The first 408 rds were fired in extremely rapid double taps as fast as the gun could be fired using 36 Wilson 8 round mags and 12 Wilson 10rd mags @ 10 yards, group size was 4" and I am sure I did not miss the other 350 times.
I do not shoot this well!
In short my opinion is as follows, tomorrow my dealer will have three semi-new Wilson CQB pistols for sale they are not even on the same playing field and if anyone has NIB hard chrome TRS for sale please email me immediately!
Joined
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43 Posts
Just a quick note, I was told by someone who uses Wilson guns exclusively with Armor Tuff finish that the green is approx. twice as durable as the black and the new gray is three times as durable as the green. Things apparently are improving.
I will try gray on my next refinish.
John
I will try gray on my next refinish.
John
Well, I'll throw in a curve on this one. I had already purchased an LB TRS some time ago, fell in love with it. It's my regular carry and home defense weapon of choice. Then I heard about the Wilson CQB, very nice. I wanted one. But it seemed too much like the TRS. So I purchased a CQB Compact, just to change things up again when I wanted a smaller conceal carry. Both shoot extremely well. I find the TRS grip fine on the hand, sharp in the beginning, took some getting used to, but very firm in the hand.
Then, I purchased Clint Smith's two Wilson TRS's (#'s 1&2), to add the Wilson editions to my collection. Recently, I saw Allan Yoast's ad for the TRS Hard Chrome. Bought that (sorry, David, I may be the guy you're referring to). It's outstanding! Beautiful, as you can see from Allan's posted picture. I would recommend the TRS very highly. Get the best of both worlds--TRS full size, only way it comes, and CQB Compact.
_________________
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." --Thomas Jefferson to Charles Yancey, 1816.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Paladin on 2001-06-15 23:58 ]</font>
Then, I purchased Clint Smith's two Wilson TRS's (#'s 1&2), to add the Wilson editions to my collection. Recently, I saw Allan Yoast's ad for the TRS Hard Chrome. Bought that (sorry, David, I may be the guy you're referring to). It's outstanding! Beautiful, as you can see from Allan's posted picture. I would recommend the TRS very highly. Get the best of both worlds--TRS full size, only way it comes, and CQB Compact.
_________________
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." --Thomas Jefferson to Charles Yancey, 1816.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Paladin on 2001-06-15 23:58 ]</font>
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35 Posts
I was looking at both the CQB and the TRS and decided on the TRS.. The CQB had just jumped up in price and i was gonna have to get a different finish, and there better parts put on it sear, hammer, etc. that do not already come on the CQB.. Anyway, the TRS is excellent, there is nothing i don`t like about this gun and i am very particular about my guns.. I love the aggresive checkering and thin grips, as well as the very tight lock up.. jus my 2¢ -Gilmore
G
Guest
·Pladin,
If I read your post correctly Allan must have had two TRS hardchrome pistols as I definitely purchased it (one of?) I have the gun it was delivered already. Maybe Allan can shed some light? [email protected].
I bought a Wilson Cqb last year and I am not 100% satisfied so I am sent it to one of the Top smiths to finish what Wilson started.
I did handle a Hard Chrome TR at the store last week and I was very impressed with the attention to detail but my $ will not go to Les.
David, if you are looking for another one it is at Guns & Knives in Margate ,Florida.
Shay
I did handle a Hard Chrome TR at the store last week and I was very impressed with the attention to detail but my $ will not go to Les.
David, if you are looking for another one it is at Guns & Knives in Margate ,Florida.
Shay
I have a Wilson Protector and a TRS. Both are gems. To bad-mouth an abuse-resistant finish on a combat sidearm because it isn't "pretty" or "shiny" is ludicrous. I routinely carry the Wilson because of the (flat black) ArmorTuff finish: No wear or corrosion. I didn't much care for the orange-peel finish at first, but Beauty is as Beauty does. It sure looks business-like. If one doesn't care for the finish, he can order the Wilson pistol with any finish he desires. Even stainless steel can be had. The TRS is a bit cheaper, but not if you add a hard-chrome or Black-T finish. As far as customer service goes, Wilson's is second to none. I had to send my Protector back for an ambi safety. They installed it to my specifications (matched the profile of the original standard r/h safety paddle on both sides) and had it back in my hands w/i two weeks. If one even thinks they might need an ambi. safety , I would advise ordering the pistol with it installed, as it is considerably ($130) cheaper. I'll let you guys know how things go when I send the TRS back to Baer for an ambi. safety. So far, though, I'll say that you can't go wrong with either.
G
Guest
·Andy,
It may be worth reading some of the other posts on this forum as relating to Wilson's finish.
As the customer of over $20k worth of Wilson custom pistols rifles, and shotguns I feel well within my rights and purpose to bad mouth a truly worthless product and their finish is just that. On the other hand if you are happy with it it’s your money and your gun.
For my money, my guns as did the Wilson's will go to Walter Birdsong's shop to have a quality firearm finish applied.
Even several of my collector grade Sig P210 pistols have gone to have Black T applied.
If you have not guessed it, yes I was really angry treading through the Amazon River Basin for 21 days in the mud and rain with a visibly rusting $1,400 K9 model 1187p and a seriously corroded $1,700 Wilson M4 carbine both of which had lost their finish in large patches, an no amount of CLP, tetra, or Sentry cloth helped.
Please remember that I paid an extra $125.00 per gun for what is a "spray paint" finish easily purchased from Brownells, multiply that number by 12 guns over two years and then factor in the cost and time it took to send the pistols to Birdsong and the rifles/shotguns to Robar for cleanup and refinishing.
I will say that to Wilson’s credit they do have a very good customer service department as I have also had “extra” work done as well as sights.
I do own several early Wilson 1911’s and I do like them a great deal, an early parkerized, cone barrel CQB is my favorite Wilson pistol.
I do not want to sound negative, but please remember that some of us do use these firearms in places where I know my life or someone else’s is on the line, if I was criticizing a gun’ finish for the way it held up when I carried it to go to the grocery store I would agree with you.
This is "real life" real world I am talking about and I am surprised that you take to task for criticizing the finish, as the finish comments were not out of place.
You may test your defensive gear differently but for what it is worth I will not even use a pistol as my CCW defensive carry gun until it has functioned reliably with at least 5,000 rounds and most pistols have over 10,000 rounds through them after I test them for consideration as a carry gun.
As of 3pm today the TRS has 2,448 rounds through it and continues to function 100%.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: David DiFabio on 2001-06-16 16:14 ]</font>
It may be worth reading some of the other posts on this forum as relating to Wilson's finish.
As the customer of over $20k worth of Wilson custom pistols rifles, and shotguns I feel well within my rights and purpose to bad mouth a truly worthless product and their finish is just that. On the other hand if you are happy with it it’s your money and your gun.
For my money, my guns as did the Wilson's will go to Walter Birdsong's shop to have a quality firearm finish applied.
Even several of my collector grade Sig P210 pistols have gone to have Black T applied.
If you have not guessed it, yes I was really angry treading through the Amazon River Basin for 21 days in the mud and rain with a visibly rusting $1,400 K9 model 1187p and a seriously corroded $1,700 Wilson M4 carbine both of which had lost their finish in large patches, an no amount of CLP, tetra, or Sentry cloth helped.
Please remember that I paid an extra $125.00 per gun for what is a "spray paint" finish easily purchased from Brownells, multiply that number by 12 guns over two years and then factor in the cost and time it took to send the pistols to Birdsong and the rifles/shotguns to Robar for cleanup and refinishing.
I will say that to Wilson’s credit they do have a very good customer service department as I have also had “extra” work done as well as sights.
I do own several early Wilson 1911’s and I do like them a great deal, an early parkerized, cone barrel CQB is my favorite Wilson pistol.
I do not want to sound negative, but please remember that some of us do use these firearms in places where I know my life or someone else’s is on the line, if I was criticizing a gun’ finish for the way it held up when I carried it to go to the grocery store I would agree with you.
This is "real life" real world I am talking about and I am surprised that you take to task for criticizing the finish, as the finish comments were not out of place.
You may test your defensive gear differently but for what it is worth I will not even use a pistol as my CCW defensive carry gun until it has functioned reliably with at least 5,000 rounds and most pistols have over 10,000 rounds through them after I test them for consideration as a carry gun.
As of 3pm today the TRS has 2,448 rounds through it and continues to function 100%.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: David DiFabio on 2001-06-16 16:14 ]</font>
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