Let's set some definitions for CUSTOM 1911s. How about "quality" and "best grade"?
Quality from a custom maker these days would assume the best in parts and put together with 100% reliability and match grade accuracy.
That might mean a Wilson, a Brown, SVI or many other custom makers guns. It isn't limited to hand built guns IMO.
I don't consider a Kimber or a Springfield TRP a "quality" 1911. I consider them "high end" base guns.
You'll get some arguement on parts quality. Baer wouldn't be on the top of my list because of the lack of heat treat and durability in the frame and slide.
But that is just personal preference.
"Best grade" on the other hand from my limited point of view means cosmetic perfection. That CAN BE Heinie, Krebs and others but the players are REALLY limited in that ball game. Best grade guns are a limited production piece from any maker.
I am talking in the same sense of English BEST GRADE guns that can be carried over to American rifle makers who are currently the recognised masters of today. I'll readdress that conection and give some perspective on the quality and investment later.
Here is a partial list of what I look for in a "best grade" gun which is where the current prices start at $3000 from my research of the guys capable of that kind of work.
Reliability and accuracy are a given on best grade firearms. The gun is clearly NOT best grade other wise. But there has to be a LOT more added to be in that realm of best grade.
On a 1911, if you haven't addressed all of these issues and several dozen more you aren't in the ball game IMO.
Custom barrel crown. Frame, ejector, extractor and slide perfectly flush fit when the gun is in battery. Perfect checkering, machine cut, hand finished with either a distinct boarder or boarderless. Machine work, like serrations, again, perfectly matched with the exsisting work or recut all to match. No hole showing at the frame when the thumb safety is engaged. No sharp edges on the gun. Sear and hammer pin quailfied either perfectly flush or rounded and to spec. Machine marks removed from the gun. Frame to slide fit should be hand lapped from OVERSIZE parts to begin with. That would mean NO frame or slide tightening and a life long frame to slide fit if done correctly. If you start with a production gun the frame and slide the frame should not show radical rail tightening when done. If so the best grade gun simply can't be built from that frame and slide set.
There as been a number of comments comparing best grade shot guns and rifles to the best custom 1911s.
POPPYCOCK!!!!!! I say
I have owned a Rigby, G&H and a Westley Richards and have several very nice rifles and shot guns. I have admired David Miller's, Darwin Hensley's, and Darcy Echols' work in person. These are some of the best grade rifle makers currently working in the US and the world. Purdy and Westly Richards are current British best grade gun makers. David Miller is looked upon as the dean of American Rifle makers, much as Heinie is as a pistolsmith. There are only a couple of pistolsmiths with the machinist's ability and expertise to just carve out a Miller scope mount, let alone true, lap and barrel an action. Add to that the inletting and finish of a fine stock blank worth from $1K to $10K alone for the wood. Compare the amount of work in a $4K Dakota and any quality 1911.
The 1911 has some 50 parts. Any quality rifle maker would look at a 1911 and laugh at the simplisity of the design. The best 1911 barrel fit can be done on a mill if the builder knows what he is doing and has the experiece and knowledge of how a 1911 works. Yes, there is much hand fitting and finish work. Much of what I listed as mandatory requirements on a best grade 1911 comes directly from the fit and finish of a best grade DGR rifle. That is an easy comparison. But the degree of skill and hand work to get a perfect rifle crown on a 416 Rigby is slightly more difficult that a 9x23 for example. And the quality of the work will have greater effect on the results while shooting.
Is a custom Miller DGR worth twice as much as Dakota African? It is for me because one fits and the other doesn't but I don't own either currently. Is a Heinie worth 5 times a Kimber, in reality no and I own both. As a piece of working art, the Heinie is worth it to me. So is a Randall over a Cold Steel to me.
Guys like Doug Turnbull (Doug Turnbull Restoration) will take your 1911 (even your 1912, 1911 POS or your old Winchester for that matter) and do all the finishing touches like surface grind the flats, flat and clean up the tool marks and re-roll mark to ACTUAL PERFECTION for you and do a perfect rust blue finish when done for $600. Blue covers more finish blemishes than chrome. Parkerising and polymer finishes cover more than either.
No best grade gun would never be parkerised or painted with polymer. That said, Ken Hackathorn has a best grade gun on order that is in fact going to be parkerised. You would never really know what the actual metal prep was...because the finish will cover the majority of the metal details.
So lets stop kidding each other on the value of custom 1911s.
Here is what a 5" gun is worth, $1700 in best grade parts, (if you spend that) 40 to 80 hours of labor. At my rates that is $8000 in labor and another $1700 in parts.....
Damn, Cameron is right we do deserve $10K for these guns! We'll $9700. anyway :roll:
Truth is the guns may indeed be worth $9700 in labor to some of the artisians but the facts are you can buy one for under $4000.
Check out the custom rifle market and see what $4000 will buy you! Then take the next step mentioned and see what SIX grand will buy. Then put that kind of labor costs into perspective on a 1911.
As you'll quickly see the numbers just don't add up.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dane Burns on 2001-06-03 16:48 ]</font>