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Discussion Starter #1
Obviously, the LEO's here are gun guys - and are probably used to maintaining their own firearms. What about the LEO's that are not gun guys (or gals)?

Does your dept. have armourers that tune up your guns periodically, or is this optional if you have proven that you can do routine maintenance on your own?
 

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Horror Story:

Life depends on gun (S&W 686). Gun hangs on wall when not on hip. Passerby (me) takes down unloaded gun for a random inspection. Passerby finds gun with lint/dust/particulate in every nook and cranny. Barrel fouled with lead so think you could get brain damage just looking at it.

Closer exam finds that the firing pin is sticking out into the cylinder. Not understanding why this particular gun was different from the other 686's, I tried to dryfire it a few times. The pin never moved. Other guns show the pin moving in and out with the hammerstrike. Not good.

It took a blow from a hammer to get the pin back into place and even then you only had one shot. Though I didn't gap the pin, I'll go out on a limb and say that it was riding against the primer when the cylinder was fully loaded!

Needless to say, management was notified, as was the gun's user, and the weapon has been removed from inventory. Said user, when questioned on the condition of the weapon, stated that he thought the vault crew was taking care of them so he didn't bother.

Never mind that the visible dust and gunk on the weapon should have served as an indicator! &@#^$ IDIOT.

Moral: NEVER, EVER trust someone else to maintain a weapon that you will bet your life on. You will live or die by the condition of your sidearm and it is your responsibility to see that it is operating within normal parameters.

And, no, we don't have any kind of armourer. We have a few cleaning kits and everybody tends to their gear (or is supposed to) in a manner they see fit. It's usually an ignorant manner, when it exists at all, but it was good enough for papa's flintlock and so will do just fine for these ones. That's the logic.

Good night.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Vaughn,
I'm assuming that you don't take your weapon home with you? Do you always get the same gun back every shift?
 

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Shane-
I've been fat, dumb and happy in the southern U.S. all my life, are there many agencies that don't allow the issued sidearm to go home with the officer? Is this an economic or political necessity or just dumb A$$? If it's either of the first two, it's still the third, IMHO.

As to maintaining my issued weapon, I inspect and clean weekly, one of the armourers inspects, adjusts, repairs, etc., before and after any range session.

_________________
Sic Semper Tyrannus

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Witherspoon on 2001-05-12 11:33 ]</font>
 

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Shane, all weapons are assigned to an individual but because they are all hanging on pegboard, it is possible to accidentally grab the one next to yours. I solved this problem by simply memorizing my serial number and am sure to check it every morning.

We used to carry our weapons home, but after three burglaries and three stolen company weapons, the company decided to keep them locked on site. Our vault is far more secure than any house!

You guys would definitely be surprised at the lazy attitude people take towards a weapon that might just save their bacon one day.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
On 2001-05-12 19:02, VaughnT wrote:

You guys would definitely be surprised at the lazy attitude people take towards a weapon that might just save their bacon one day.
Wanna bet? That's why is started this post - I was afraid of getting answers like yours. Glad you take the time to know your weapon and take care of it.
 

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In our agency, we have 3 full time "Depot" armorers, at our National training center. Then, there are about 10 Field Maintenance Officers, which are armorers in the field, dispersed throughout various offices in the country. The FMO's can essentially do anything shy of milling work and striking torches.

Annual detail inspections by the FMO's are suggested, but not mandated. I am an FMO, and I usually don't see anyone's gun until the gun breaks. We randomly inspect a few guns for cleanliness at qualifications, but it probably takes a year or two to get to see every gun.

Every officer is responsible for getting their guns to the FMO for repair - they are not authorized to take them down beyond field stripping, period. There are enough FMO's to keep the guns running, and enough spare guns around to replace as needed, in case something "major" happens to a gun.

It isn't a great policy, but it's pretty good, for a big fed agency.
 

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How do you go about getting certified as an armourer? I'd love to be able to break down our Rem 870's or S&W 686's. The company won't pay for it, but I wouldn't mind the cost if it meant I could fix guns as they break.

Heck, maybe I can talk them into giving me an ammo budget so I can perform field-suitability tests on all the guns!!! :smile:
 

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Discussion Starter #10
On 2001-05-13 19:03, VaughnT wrote:
How do you go about getting certified as an armourer.
You would have to take the manufacturers' approved armourer course. If you are seriously interested, and your agency will back you, have them get in touch with the manufacturer (Remington, S&W, Glock, etc.) and ask about their certified armourer courses. Some mfgs. offer such courses to law enforcement agencys.

Good luck!
 

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Our current duty weapon is the Glock 23. I was sent by the agency to the Glock Armorers course. During each qualification date (three times annually per officer) the weapons are inspected by a department armorer.
 

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In my agency, the boss of the office has to request that you be sent, then you have to send your qualifications in writing to the National Firearms staff. If you have enough previous tinkering experience, then you go to the agency school, where they give you a FULL set of tools and teach you advanced tricks for the specific guns that the agency uses.
 

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our department has no guidelines except, "its your job to keep your weapon checked and cleaned, any problems turn it in to the chief." or something close to that. i check my gun over before i start out of the house to work, i empty it, inspect it, then reload it. there are about 5 of us in our department that are picky about our guns. we clean them, shoot them together and so on. i do see officers though that the only time that gun comes out is on the range, then its put up (sometimes cleaned) until the next range session, which for us is once a year.

russel the cop
 

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As the senior FI on station I maintain the gun locker. Basically all the shotguns and rifles, gas guns. Once a month we break down every gun and clean. If it gets shot in between we do it. We also check every guys gun for function and cleaning. There are four of us so doing it is pretty easy. We are getting over run with Bangers from the city so guys take it pretty serious. Hell, I remember the old timers never cleaning the revolvers. Things were alot quieter in those days.
 

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I inspect and/or repair all of our officer's weapons (duty and backup) after every range session (usually 3 times per year). You would be amazed what some officers will miss. I had one officer who shot all day with a broken decocking lever on a Smith and Wesson .45. Other officers fail to notice "minor" things like cracked frames!
 

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On 2001-05-13 19:03, VaughnT wrote:
How do you go about getting certified as an armourer? I'd love to be able to break down our Rem 870's or S&W 686's. The company won't pay for it, but I wouldn't mind the cost if it meant I could fix guns as they break.
Hi,
Actually the best armorers classes that I have ever attended had been revolver classes. If you attend the S&W or Ruger revolver schools, do it at the factory. You will not be sorry. You must work for a government entity to attend these schools. I've got a mere 300 hours of armorers training and have learned so much. In so little time. Hope this helps you. :smile: Nick
 

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As no official maintenance policy exists, and I am my agency's "gun guy", I periodically say "gimme" to my fellow officers, and proceed to disassemble, inspect, clean, and repair their issue weapons. Having a smaller agency allows for this informal approach, and I always document my actions, ensuring that all weapons are accounted for. For me, "periodically" means once every month or two, in addition to periods of qualification. Neither my current agency, nor my previous employer has sent me to an Armorers course. As such, I went on my owm. I have become a certified Armorer for Glock, SIG, H&K (USP and MP5), S&W autos, and Bushmaster rifles/carbines. I will be pursuing other certifications as they become available. I just can't get enough.
 

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I hear where you are comming from SnapCut. Actually, it would be in my best interest to attempt to get medical therapy for my gun addiction. A good approach would be to take a trip to Yonkers New York and watch them assemble 1911's at Kimbers plant. Then off to Hartford to visit Colt for follow-up treatment. :smile:
 

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My agency asks us to provide our own weapons , which is fine with us because if we want a 191 its fine , all but two are gun guys and clean weekly if not more . My own guns are cleaned and inspected on my nights off and reoiled . I would not dream of letting another person be responsible for something I should be doing , after all its my life on the line . My Grandpa always said after hunting that before the guns were put up they were to be cleaned and now days I know why , he was WW2 Vet that also depended on his guns for a living .
 

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On 2001-06-24 17:56, jafo216 wrote:
My agency asks us to provide our own weapons , which is fine with us because if we want a 191 its fine , all but two are gun guys and clean weekly if not more . My own guns are cleaned and inspected on my nights off and reoiled . I would not dream of letting another person be responsible for something I should be doing , after all its my life on the line . My Grandpa always said after hunting that before the guns were put up they were to be cleaned and now days I know why , he was WW2 Vet that also depended on his guns for a living .
Your Grandpa served during a time when our military forces used very diverse firearms. There is no doubt that many Depot Level WW2 Armorers where very capable in gun repair. Many of the specialized tools and techniques have died with WW2 Armorers. But let's face it, maitenance is more then simply field stripping a firearm, cleaning and lubricating your departments duty firearms. While many newer service pistols eliminate the need for anything other then detail stripping by a qualified Armorer, some parts small replacement without proper dimensional fitting. "Drop-in" in the purest sense. These newer generation of service autopistols do not need handfitting (i.e. Glock, SIG). However, many highpower firearms (Mini-14/M-14) do need advanced gauge inspection. Such work must be performed by trained personel with special tools which are both hard to obtain, restricted to armorers and/or downright expensive. It is amazing what is in service today. Having seen Vietnam era Northstar weapons issued to police agencies that had been in dire need of a good going over. It is amazing to note the high number of police issued firearms that are not being serviced correctly. It takes time, tools and training. I am the first to agree with the best maintenance protocol starts with the individual carrying the gun. So I hear where you are coming from.
 
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