Full length guide rods - you knew it had to rear it's head..

7415 Views 33 Replies 21 Participants Last post by bthp, Jul 28, 2002

Shane1911

Discussion Starter · Mar 30, 2001

OK, so I don't have an accessories related posting - but it's simply too cool to be the first poster in a virgin forum. God forgive me. :smile:

1 - 20 of 34 Posts

G. Kennedy

· #2 · Mar 30, 2001

I'll bite. FLGR's are a waste of time for anything but competition and then only if you're shooting against someone at the same level as you where it MIGHT help give you an edge along with everything else you're doing to shoot to win.

I'll take a standard guide and plug. Disassembly without a wrench, better for clearing jams and if you have to use the gun with one hand.....

Shane1911

Discussion Starter · #3 · Mar 30, 2001

OK, now I have to get serious. I, on the other hand, like them and use them in all my 1911's and the wife's Glock.

I like the (slightly) extra weight over the muzzle end.

On the tactical side, I can still cycle my slide one-handed thru other means (hooking the rear sight on edge of the holster, etc.) and I have had a real world experience that makes me believe that their benefit outweighs any liability. A 1911 (or any other semi-auto for that matter) can get knocked out of battery very easily by a slight blow to the muzzle end. A full length guide rod prevents the slide from accidently (or purposely) being pushed far enough back to cause the chambered cartridge to jam. For the un-initiated, a FLGR comes thru the front of the recoil spring plug. The plug is not a solid front like the mil-spec guns, or guns that do not have FLGR. The effect of the FLGR coming thru the front of the plug actually limits the amount of travel that the slide can make rearward, should an obstruction, (or the BG's hand) try to push back on the muzzle in an attempt to jam the gun.

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Mute

· #4 · Mar 30, 2001

Don't see a need for it. OTOH, if you prefer one and can make it run reliably in your gun, no big deal. Just make sure you know all the pros and cons before choosing. Personally, I do not have FLGRs in any of my 1911s.

Stephen A. Camp

· #5 · Mar 30, 2001

Hello. I prefer the old "GI" recoil spring guide and use them. Don't really see a need for the full length, but some folks do like 'em. I kind of believe that IF you THINK it helps, it HELPS.

Best.

Eugene D. Goodwin

· #6 · Mar 30, 2001

On 2001-03-29 19:43, shane45-1911 wrote:
OK, now I have to get serious. I, on the other hand, like them and use them in all my 1911's and the wife's Glock.

I like the (slightly) extra weight over the muzzle end.

On the tactical side, I can still cycle my slide one-handed thru other means (hooking the rear sight on edge of the holster, etc.) and I have had a real world experience that makes me believe that their benefit outweighs any liability. A 1911 (or any other semi-auto for that matter) can get knocked out of battery very easily by a slight blow to the muzzle end. A full length guide rod prevents the slide from accidently (or purposely) being pushed far enough back to cause the chambered cartridge to jam. For the un-initiated, a FLGR comes thru the front of the recoil spring plug. The plug is not a solid front like the mil-spec guns, or guns that do not have FLGR. The effect of the FLGR coming thru the front of the plug actually limits the amount of travel that the slide can make rearward, should an obstruction, (or the BG's hand) try to push back on the muzzle in an attempt to jam the gun.

Not sure how well the old push back on the muzzle deactivation works. My Dad has often related a story of when he and another guy were on guard duty on base in germany and the guy who was posted with him said "hey look at this" while pushing back on the bbl with his index finger and then proceeded to pull the trigger and blow a .45" hole through it(which later had to be amputated from the knuckle up because it was mostly just skin holding what was left of the upper portion of the finger to the rest.

I've got one in a Para limited and have had no problems and I now have one in my new Springfield which will be gone after 9x23 conversion. I'm with those who say use it if you like/can and don't if you think it's a liability. I think Dane is right when he says most FLGR's are put in factory guns to simulate a good slide/frame fit(we'll see when I take my Springer apart)My Para is quite good with the FLGR btw.

gyp_c2

· #7 · Mar 30, 2001

Well, well, well...

Look what the cat turned up!

Hi guys...I really don't care for them...But since our buddy Shane likes 'em so much...I think I'll just try one!
I know Brown has one for my Champion...Whatdya' think Shane?
Will I need any other parts to change over to the FLGR? :roll:

:wink:

Shane1911

Discussion Starter · #8 · Mar 30, 2001

On 2001-03-29 23:16, gyp_c2 wrote:
Well, well, well...

Look what the cat turned up!

Hi guys...I really don't care for them...But since our buddy Shane likes 'em so much...I think I'll just try one!
I know Brown has one for my Champion...Whatdya' think Shane?
Will I need any other parts to change over to the FLGR? :roll:

:wink:

Nice to see some familiar faces ! I'm not gonna argue with anyonw who says they can live without them. I have had enough experience with and without FLGR to know that they don't make a bit of difference as far a reliability goes. I have seen SLIGHT improvement in accuracy with a Ransom rest however. The improvement was only about 1/4" at 25 yards however. Don't think that means a whole lot on a fightin' gun. I believe that they don't hurt, so there's no harm in their use.

Gyp_c, I'm sure that your Champion will function just fine with a FLGR with nothing else required. You may want to order a couple - your dog will want the first one :wink:

Shane1911

Discussion Starter · #9 · Mar 30, 2001

On 2001-03-29 22:51, Eugene_G. wrote:
[/quote]
Not sure how well the old push back on the muzzle deactivation works. My Dad has often related a story of when he and another guy were on guard duty on base in germany and the guy who was posted with him said "hey look at this" while pushing back on the bbl with his index finger and then proceeded to pull the trigger and blow a .45" hole through it...
[/quote]

Para, me thinks his disconnector was on the fritz. Shouldn't have happened.

gyp_c2

· #10 · Mar 30, 2001

From Shane:

Gyp_c, I'm sure that your Champion will function just fine with a FLGR with nothing else required. You may want to order a couple - your dog will want the first one

I'm afraid you lost me there, Shane whatcha' mean? :???:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Shane1911

Discussion Starter · #11 · Mar 30, 2001

Gyp_c,

Didn't your dog eat some parts that you ordered to fix your Springfield, over in the 1911 Forum?

I thought it was you - but I can't check the Forum to find out! :smile:

gyp_c2

· #12 · Mar 30, 2001

Yep...Lil' slow last night, I was tarred...Sore this am to boot...Yeah, as it turned out, it was an ok deal...I'm NOT goin' lookin' for the other parts BTW...

I bought a frame set(pins and springs) and a set of recoil springs(18,20,22,24) as well as some +5% Mag springs for my 8 and 10rd CMCs...
I bought the ejector and extractor and installed them, I'm hoping that will get the pistol back to ground -0- and experiment with the recoil springs and upgrade the mags as needed...
The original problem was that I went from a perfectly functioning pistol(SA Champion 45) to one that had FTFeed, FTEject, Stovepipes, etc. overnight!
I literally had a good shooter one day and the next, one that couldn't qualify as anything but a club!
...talk about depressed...
I know the extractor was worn out, at the range, I could re-adjust the extractor and it would work much better for maybe 2 mags and then gradually return to "poop-a matic" and the ejector was good until I sent it to a smith and he did some other work but didn't work on the ejector, the only thing I could figure was the two parts were bad to start with and just gave up at the same time...I don't want to consider the alternatives...I just want it back to where it was! Of course, I would still be happy if it turned out to work even better than before!
The only "problem" with this pistol is that it did NOT like Gold-Dots! It will feed Cor-Bon, Hydra-Shoks, Triton, and LSWC 200gr. LightLoads...and of course all forms of ball ammo...
After those parts went bad...it wouldn't work at all...In one mag, I'd have 2-3 jams of different kinds!!!!

Anyway...It's on its' way back and that's the main thing...:wink:

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Eugene D. Goodwin

· #13 · Mar 31, 2001

On 2001-03-29 23:40, shane45-1911 wrote:
On 2001-03-29 22:51, Eugene_G. wrote:

Not sure how well the old push back on the muzzle deactivation works. My Dad has often related a story of when he and another guy were on guard duty on base in germany and the guy who was posted with him said "hey look at this" while pushing back on the bbl with his index finger and then proceeded to pull the trigger and blow a .45" hole through it...
[/quote]

Para, me thinks his disconnector was on the fritz. Shouldn't have happened.
[/quote]
Yep, either that or he let off of it before he pulled the trigger and it wasn't even engaged anymore. You never know with them military guys sometimes...heh heh heh :wink:

Hilton Yam

· #14 · Apr 1, 2001

I dislike the FLGR in that it makes the pistol harder to strip. The extra weight is unnecessary, as I feel that any weight that can be trimmed is a good thing since I carry it every day. No one can empirically tell you that a FLGR will increase reliability, so that's another point. As far as the issue of getting knocked out of battery, this was beaten to death on 1911forum. My thoughts: the 1911 is locked in battery if the safety is on. That's the position I'd use if I was beating on someone with it. If we really want to get paranoid about contact shots and out of battery problems up close, then consider that *maybe* the top front of the slide could get pushed back. So if we want protection from ALL possibilities of getting pushed out of battery in CQB, we'd better get an Alternate Force Block to be sure.

G

· #15 · Apr 1, 2001

On 2001-03-31 21:42, Hilton Yam wrote:
I dislike the FLGR in that it makes the pistol harder to strip. The extra weight is unnecessary, as I feel that any weight that can be trimmed is a good thing since I carry it every day. No one can empirically tell you that a FLGR will increase reliability, so that's another point. As far as the issue of getting knocked out of battery, this was beaten to death on 1911forum. My thoughts: the 1911 is locked in battery if the safety is on. That's the position I'd use if I was beating on someone with it. If we really want to get paranoid about contact shots and out of battery problems up close, then consider that *maybe* the top front of the slide could get pushed back. So if we want protection from ALL possibilities of getting pushed out of battery in CQB, we'd better get an Alternate Force Block to be sure.

Hilton, it is unrelated but are you the same Hilton Yam that I traded a Carbon fiber folder to a few years back?

mnealtx

· #16 · Apr 1, 2001

I have a Kimber Classic Target that came with the FLGR. Last time I was home, I had it replaced with a GI rod and plug, and swapped out the flat MSH with an arched MSH (plastic, unfortunately). So far, so good. I've noticed no change in either cycling or accuracy, and I like being able to do an easier press-check. Just my .02

J Sanders

· #17 · Apr 1, 2001

Good to see some familiar faces so to speak. Shane I was about to post a similar topic when I seen your guide rod post.
I put a flgr in my wilson 1996-A2 and thought I had improved things til I seen the debate over flgr's on 1911 forum and I took it out again. Since then I've swapped back and forth a time or two and It seems to me that my shock buffs show a little more wear without the rod than when its in. Has anyone else noticed this. I was firing 250 or 300 rounds between changes and after I noticed it the first time I put a new shok-buff in with the change so I would be comparing apples to apples.If thats true,and it seems to be in my gun I think I'll run with the flgr if for no other reason than maybe its easier on the gun. I'd really like to hear some thoughts on this from some of you who know lots more about these things than me:JS

Shane1911

Discussion Starter · #18 · Apr 1, 2001

On 2001-04-01 16:34, J Sanders wrote:
It seems to me that my shock buffs show a little more wear without the rod than when its in. Has anyone else noticed this

Hi Joey!
Glad you found us!
I can't say that I have heard of this phenomenon, nor can I think of any reason why this may be true. I guess we'll have to wait and see if anyone else has noticed this as well.

VictorLouis

· #19 · Apr 11, 2001

I like the buffered standard rod offered by King's Gun Works. It works in conjunction with a reinforced recoil spring plug. It seems to provide the benefit of Shok-Buffs w/o the potentional for malfs when they become chewed up.

FBowers

· #20 · Apr 13, 2001

I think the FLGR makes a 1911 feel a little smoother. I can't hear or feel the spring as much when manually cycling the action. A small point. If you have a rod with the pin style take down, disassembly is no problem at all.

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