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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Here is another one. If getting the bullet to the target through the body is an issue why not ball ammo.

Coopper till claims 90% OSS to ball.
IIRC

I am not adverse to ball for carry ammo for a number of reasons which I will restate after I get railed on a bit :grin:

What do you all think?

One of the guys, who has seem the most shootings with ball I suspect, can't post what he knows, which is a shame.

I would like more data.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dane Burns on 2001-04-13 15:14 ]</font>
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
No doubt ball will wound. If was actually designd to function in the guns first. Long before any one thought up "wounding" as a tactical use of a firearm. Let's not get carried away with the idea of the intent on the design.

45 just makes a bigger wound than 9mm ball. 9mm ball was infact incorporated at a much later date (30 or 40 so years later I suspect) to "wound" as a secondary function of the original design which was based on reliability as JOB ONE to kill, job #2.

Much of the rest of the issue is gun writer hand jive I suspect.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Cuts and breaks heal faster than a bruise or sprain. How we heal has little to do with bullet effectiveness during the fight.

I'll get back ot you on the invention of ball ammo. But trust me, it was function, not "accords", that began our involvement in ball ammo..or "full patch" as it was known then.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
There are many accounts of people being shot with up to 8 rounds of current high grade HPs and walking away...Golden Saber being the last, just a mounth ago, that I heard about.

Like the man said, "it's only a handgun for crimney sake, what do you expect!"
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
It goes on and on without a clear pattern or some discernable statistics as to the overall effectiveness of 230gr "GI Ball".
Asked to comment, here is my take on the subject matter. 10,000 poor samplings in a survey doesn't make a good survey. From the results I am seeing here I would say the sampling techniques are clearly faulty to produce any kind of reliable stats from the info you have David.

I am not a stats guy. Had to take three classses in College on the subject. One twice.

I think that when you apply scientific research to the shooting results collected in an anedotal manner you have lost the majority of the useful material collected.

Couple of examples. I know of an incident that a extremely fit person fell and broke their Tibia. Painful yes. Fatal, no. That person died from shock befor an evacuation could be mounted. Another person, not nearly as fit, same circumstances exactly, walked out under his own power with a worse break to the tibia?

Does that mean 50% of the time if you break a tibia you will die? Of course not! But the incidents happened.

How about a flesh would to the hip. Bone only grazed. Instant stop on one person. Not even noticable on another. This happened too.

Life/circumsatnce/luck/will has a way of doing different things to different people.

I want to know what happens when someone is shot by the observers recollections on sight and the post shooting info.

Does it mean a lot? I don't think so.

Shoot them in the right place. Shoot them a lot, in the right place. More importantly attempt not to get shot while doing so.

That isn't the answer everyone is looking for but that one will solve the ammo question I suspect :smile:
 
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