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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
On another forum an FBI exec apparently shot himself in the leg during or after training. Do Glocks really go off like that or must there be a deliberate action for this terrible event to take place?
 
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I believe we could ask the same question of the FBI Agent who "accidently" shot an undercover agent in the spine with his 1911?
 

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Most guns will go off if you pull the trigger!

Nearly every incident of Glock discharge vs lower extremities of the gun handler are "inserting-gun-in-holster-with-finger-on-the-trigger" induced. It is usually caused by poor shooting habits combined with either stress or lack of attention.

A local officer had a "shot thru the calf" incident after a foot chase and hold at gunpoint. After he got the perp to lay still for cuffing, he knelt and holstered his Glock a-la finger on the trigger. His partner very nearly shot the prone perp thinking he had fired on the officer!

NEVER get lax with your good shooting/gun handling habits!

Mikey
 

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The way I was taught was: use the first finger as a 'guide' when reholstering your pistol, the finger should slide down the outside of the holster as you are inserting the gun (and as a consequence it will be out of the trigger guard :grin: If ya do that, ya prolly won't shoot yerself :lol:
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
It does seem there is a fair number of events where people shoot themselves when re-holstering the firearm. Under stress an easy task becomes impossible.
 
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All good points,
Have any of you guys seen the calibre training video where the SWAT officer pulls the pin as they make an entry, on his flash bang then turns to as the hosue is full of natural gas to retreat and drops the grenade in his BDU pocket?
Well it sure did go !BANG! and it took him several seconds to realize it was his pocket that went off, then he fell on the ground.
 

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YIKES! I'd sure hate to be that guy! I bet
that hurt like a sonofabitch!



_________________
-Justin

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: JLM on 2001-06-12 22:00 ]</font>
 

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In the case of the recent ND by the FBI agent with the Glock, the account that I read stated that he was preparing to clean his pistol after training. He pulled the trigger to decock and shot himself in the leg.

Now, why he pointed the pistol at himself and failed to check the chamber are questions that we lowly non-Feds can only wonder about. :roll:
 

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Thats what you get when some fool gun designer puts a safety ON the trigger. I can't imagine in this day and age how a lawyer for that gun company wouldn't scream loud and clear "are you stupid or what?". In my mind a safety on the trigger can give the owner a false sense of security. It is no safer than my Ruger P97 DAO.........Mike
 

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No safety would have prevented the ND as described above.

As for safeties in general - if not for stupid people we wouldn't need them at all! Somehow we managed to get by for 100 years without them on revolvers. I believe people are just getting lax with the 4 laws of gun safety.

Treat every gun as if it's loaded until it's checked and double checked. NEVER point a gun at something you don't intend to shoot (especially parts of your own anatomy). Keep your dang finger off the dang trigger and when you DO shoot, know what your target is and what's behind it. How hard is that?

ANYBODY who depends on a mechanical safety to prevent an ND IS stupid. The shooter is the only safety any gun actually has.

Obviously just my opinion...

Mikey
 

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Some things happen because we are stupid, some because our mind is some place else, some because of stress.

Have never had a ND, knock on wood, but I was once attacked by a dog that jumped out in a woodland area, and I was amazed at the number of rounds I fired...after he was dead and I got my bleeding stopped. I would have sworn it was 3, MAYBE 4 shots, but the slide was locked back :eek: . Same thing happened to a friend who was backpacking in bear country and spooked a sow he had to shoot. He told me later he recalled shooting twice. In fact, he had dumped the entire cylinder of the .44 mag he was carrying. This guy has hunted 2 and 4 legged creatures most of his adult life.

An immediate adren dump is a wild thing...as it being completely dead on your ass out of gas in a fight. Makes things that appear stupid to others, very easy to do. Darn hard to replicate in training, too.
 

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Mikey:

It's not just your opinion, it is mine as well. And it should be everyone's.

As put by Jeff Cooper, "Gun safety is between the ears, not in gadgetry." (I hope I quoted that correctly)
 
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Well said and a very good point.
Once I made an after action report/statement that I had fired a total of 4 rounds in a shooting incident, it did not go well for me when the "record" had to be changed as I had in fact fired all 15rds in my M9 and reloaded and I had no recollection of doing so.

I really, truly, believed I had only fired 4 rounds and even today I would still swear that is what happened.
 

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On 2001-06-13 08:32, Matt VDW wrote:
In the case of the recent ND by the FBI agent with the Glock, the account that I read stated that he was preparing to clean his pistol after training. He pulled the trigger to decock and shot himself in the leg.

Now, why he pointed the pistol at himself and failed to check the chamber are questions that we lowly non-Feds can only wonder about. :roll:
I've noticed that some Glocker's have the wierdest habit. They carry their gun chamber empty, decocked (though, of course, the spring isn't under pressure when cocked)
The odd part? They put the muzzle of the gun against their off-hand when they pull the trigger. I know of at least 2 people that have shot themselves this (idiotic) way.


At one of the ranges, one of the employee's carried a 1911, he lowered the hammer while holstering, since I guess he prefered carrying hammer down loaded. He shot himself in teh leg and the owner of the range said no more 1911's for the employee's. They're obviously too dangerous. :roll:

The best was in the Colt Pony manual which had a line that was something like; "warning, if gun is loaded and trigger is pulled, gun will fire"
:razz:
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I am happy that discussions and responses to this topic were related to safety issues and actual events. It reminds us to pay attention. As someone brought up don't let your mind be elsewhere when holstering or drawing the gun. California is trying to implement laws to take the place of training and safety with guns. Things like chamber indicators and guns that may be fired only by their owners. Of course the cops and hollywood are exempt from these laws. We all find the best course to train as our income allows. Most gun owners understand how important gun handling and safety training is to their well being. Thanks for the good responses.
 

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On 2001-06-13 08:32, Matt VDW wrote:
In the case of the recent ND by the FBI agent with the Glock, the account that I read stated that he was preparing to clean his pistol after training. He pulled the trigger to decock and shot himself in the leg.

Now, why he pointed the pistol at himself and failed to check the chamber are questions that we lowly non-Feds can only wonder about. :roll:
I've got a newsflash for you. He wasn't an FBI Agent.
 

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As someone who carries a weapon concealed every day I have an informed opinion about the issue of safeties.

As a civilain carrying, the last damn gun I want to carry is one without a safety. This doesnt have anything to do with my own gun handling. It has everything to do with the chance that someone at some time might take my gun from me. You might say thats not likely, but needing the gun in the first place is also unlikely, but it doesn't stop me from trying to justify carrying it.

Its a proven fact that a gun without a safety can be INSTANTLY fired by anyone, i.e. a revolver for instance. It has also been demonstrated quite effectively enough to me that untrained people take considerably longer to bring a gun like a 1911 pattern into service if unfamiliar with the safety, if they even shoot the gun at all. That time, can be critical.
 

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I recall an article in a gun rag about Isreali Mossad training about drawing and firing their concealed Glocks . Like most military units their gun has an empty chamber. The gun is drawn and the slide is racked in one motion. I don't know if this is the military mindset or that the Mossad doesn't trust guns without a manual safety.

I recall 2 reasons from reading (not training) why civilians should have their gun's chambers loaded.

1. Liability. Racking the slide in front of a badguy is considered VERY threatening. Almost assault!

2. You may have an injured hand/arm and cannot rack the slide........Mike
 
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