[Friar Tuck]

1st things first: This is my first posting on pistolsmith.com--- greetings to all!

Here's my question: I took a friend and his two sons shooting this weekend. It was their first time on a range. We shot mainly with .22s as this was their introduction to target shooting. However at the end I pulled out my 3rd gen Glock 17 and fired a few rounds. When it came time for the boys (ages 11 and 13) to shoot, the Glock experienced several failures to cycle and one failure to fully extract (empty case at 90 degree angle in ejection port). Is this caused by the boys not holding the gun firmly enough? I also experienced failures of the slide to stay open after the last round (I was using original Glock post ban mags). Should I be concerned? The gun seemed to work just fine in my hands.

 

[Peter Loron]

If the gun shoots fine for you, I woudl tend to agree with your assessment.

 

[Pistolero]

Friar, This may be worth reading. See:
http://www.sportshooter.com/improving/mb_grip.htm

 

[mike357]

the only time i have had any malfunctions in my glock 31 was when my 10 yoa son shot it and it stove piped on him. it was because of his weak grip, i hate to say he was "limp wristed"(just a father thing you know).

 

[Dane Burns]

I would guess at 30% or higher of all the Glocks I have seen students shooting in class, malfunction in the first hour or so on the first day.

Reason? Limp wristing.

As the shooters get better with practice during the day the problems seem to go away.

There is something there worth reflecting on IMO.

 

[Friar Tuck]

You're right Dane, the "limp wristing" malfunction is food for thought...God forbid you should ever find yourself hurt and having to shoot the Glock from the weak hand from an awkward position....

 

[Dane Burns]

Here is my take on it. The Glock seems to end up being the wonder nine for the masses. For an experiemced shooter I doubt there would be a problem on first shot.

On the other hand the two most common malfunctions I see are, limp wristing and failure to feed on the second round. Both operator error IMO. (recyling expensive ammo gives the sound round malf and the limp wrist is a failure to practice.

Add both together and a new shooter to boot and a Glock is a problem under stress and duress for the average shooter IMO. Now add the big grip which makes the limp wristing worse...my bet? A single stack Sig, Beretta, ect. or a revolver. A 1911 will do in a pinch too.

After all it is going to be the first few rounds or first mag that normally solve the fight. Best to get those rounds out the barrel and on target and not have a malfunction while doing so.

 

[Bruce]

The Glocks I own have all been bought right...as bought from people looking to trade them in on *anything else* because all they did was jam, for them.

Each of the guns work fine. All the guns I mention were owned by newbie shooters who had been sold what the cops carried by some wise salesman.

Although not as broad an experience pool as Dane draws on, I have seen far too many newer shooters, and women shooters, have hellish problems with Glock pistols. While I would not hesitate to grab one when needed, there is a reason the wife *prefers* to shoot a revolver. In short, my house guns aren't plastic :smile:

 

[JLM]

Is this a common problem with ALL polymer framed guns or just the Glocks? I've yet to have a single FTF out of my USP, but I've never shot it in a life or death, high stress situation either. Makes me wonder thou.

 

[Ironside]

Guys, I know all about the "Limp wrist syndrome" with Glocks. I have multiple physical disabilities that leaves me with 'semi-fused elbows' at about a 50 degree extension, short arms and a eyeball to rear sight distance of approx. 14". I am also only able to shoot offhand.
I can't get any of the Glock 9's to function for me no matter how hot I load them. The Clock 40's work great for me
though. The Glock 21&30 are fine as long as I use Nato spec. HB. I currently have a G36
that is working out well.
I'm thinking about getting a G31 or G32.
Do you guys think one or both will work Ok for me? I shot a broke in G31 and it worked fine.
Let me know your opinions, please.

 

[mike357]

ironside,
the 31 or 32 might work better because of the bottle-necked round IMO should be a better "feeder" than straight cases, because you are pushing a .355 dia. bullet into a .40 dia. hole.

 

[Dane Burns]

I like the Glocks and shoot them fine, know guys who shoot them better :grin:

I have not seen the problem with H&K. Second round failures are a problem with any gun that you don't cycle new ammo through on a regular basis. That isn't a Glock problem per say, just a newbie problem in general I think.

 

[Ironside]

Thanks Guys, I think I have decided on the
G32 and a case of CCI Blazer to start with.
My 1911's are much more forgiving when it comes to "Limp wrist syndrome", not a problem. But I just can't seem to shake the Glock Bug also, love them too.........

Mike

 

[Dane Burns]

DUDE! a lot of difference between love and like :grin:

 

[shootingbuff]

Would anyone think going from a 17/18 lb recoil spring down to a 15 would help.

My at the time 14 year old could not shoot my 17. My 5 and 7 year old could. hum. Of course he likes the 40 glocks and his SA 45. Just could not get the 17 to cycle.

I do not think this is "limp wristing" if a 5 year old can shoot the same gun and rounds. Could it be how uneven pressure is asserted to the frame causing the frame to twist?

sb

 

[Friar Tuck]

I never expected this "limp wrist" thread to go on so long! I had never noticed the problem until the kids (under careful supervision) tried popping a few caps. One gun that NEVER has a "limp wristing" problem is the H&K P7. The "squeeze cocker" mechanism requires that you have a firm grip on the gun. I've let some "newbies" fire my P7 and they usually do quite well. The fixed barrel also contributes to accuracy. Conventional wisdom seems to favor a pistol with more "traditional" controls for newbies but nothing inspires greater confidence than having a new pistol shooter actually be able to hit his/her target successfully.

 

[JLM]

Dane,

I have not seen the problem with H&K. Second round failures are a problem with any gun that you don't cycle new ammo through on a regular basis.

Could you clarify what you mean by "cycle new ammo through on a regular basis."? Thanks :smile:

 

[Dane Burns]

Sure. Good carry ammo is expensive, so most don't shoot it often enough and carry it their guns, recycling (unload and reload to make the gun safe)it, WAY too long. I try to shoot my carry mags up every couple of weeks.

Ken Hackathorn points this out in his classes and in an AH article some months back. I agree it is a problem for the CCWs people.

New ammo will avoid set back on the recycled case and give me a little practice with "duty" ammo and a continual check for reliable function with that ammo.

 

[Chris Oslin]

Gang!

How good to see that Dane is not bashing our beloved Combat Tupperware any more than necessary!

Admittedly, I have seen the Glocks jam up due to a poor grip/limp wrist, but again, once pointed out to the student, it makes them more cognizant of their basics and transfers to other platforms, other than just Glocks. If teaching people to shoot Glocks makes them better overall shooters, then that is even MORE reason to use them!

As far as SB and his younger son not having problems shooting the Glock like his older son did - I don't have an explanation for that. Supposition could theorize that the younger son was paying more attention, and therefore locking everything up tight, but I wasn't there watching to assess the problem.

I have shot SB's guns, and they all seem to work well, as long as his reloads' OAL are not too long! I do recall an experience he had at the AZ State IDPA Championship, however... But we won't go there. :grin::

My agency went to 9mm Glocks in the last 2 years, and the only problems I have seen thusfar include weak mag springs, and the occasional limp-wrist causing a malfunction. Compared to the S&W 6906's that were the last issue, the scores have gone up over 20%, the malfunctions have gone down exponentially, and the repairs have been reduced to virtually none.

Some can argue the caliber selection, but the platform they picked is as good as it can get for the average officer, with the minimum training time alotted by management.

 

[Ironside]

Shootingbuff: That could very well be part of my problem due to my Physical challenges.
However the G31 works fine for me, G22, G23
and G36 also do.
I tried 15 and 16 pound Recoil springs
in my 1st gen. G17 and I had "Failure to go into battery" problems. Went from one extreme to another. Simplest thing for me to do was Just get rid of the F'n G17....