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Guest
·Yes or No?
Guns in schools
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G
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·I could not agree more!!
Do I understand the question? Are you asking if it's OK for a child to have a loaded weapon in the public school system? A child who has most likely had no formal weapons training ? A child who is likely to use his weapon as fast as his mouth, because he hasn't matured and is apt to make rash and immature choices?
Sure, let 'em take guns to school. Are you insane? No wonder the government wants to take guns away, if we are so pro-gun that we say that ANYBODY should have one. A bit of common sense here, guys.
OK WAIT - I have edited this, now that I see where this post is going. I am now assuming you mean an ADULT. Yes, all for it - no problem - sorry.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: shane45-1911 on 2001-03-29 20:08 ]</font>
Sure, let 'em take guns to school. Are you insane? No wonder the government wants to take guns away, if we are so pro-gun that we say that ANYBODY should have one. A bit of common sense here, guys.
OK WAIT - I have edited this, now that I see where this post is going. I am now assuming you mean an ADULT. Yes, all for it - no problem - sorry.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: shane45-1911 on 2001-03-29 20:08 ]</font>
G
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·Or is the question "should teachers, administrators, etc. be discretely armed in schools"?
Maybe, with proper training.
zook
Maybe, with proper training.
zook
G
Guest
·No guys! You think I'm nuts,,here:well I can't find the link but Texas now allows teachers and such to carry in the schools if they have a ccw..,,good !!
25 years ago we all hauled our shotguns and deer rifles to school during season. Usually, they stayed in the truck, but every once in awhile one would make its way into shop class to have a stock refitted, etc. No one was shot, no one was expelled, no one died.
Contrary to the new age thinkers, guns go with young boys like dogs go with young boys. Frankly, I have never met a man I trusted who did not own guns and shoot well. Same goes for my childhood, never met a kid with a gun that I couldn't get along with.
Now, for inner-city schools? Armed guards, armed teachers, and locks that get latched on the doors at 8:00am sharp. Want to make your way down the haul shooting? Just realize that trained folks will be shooting back.
The "keep the guns away from school" mantra is just further evidence of the pussification of America. Don't buy into it.
Contrary to the new age thinkers, guns go with young boys like dogs go with young boys. Frankly, I have never met a man I trusted who did not own guns and shoot well. Same goes for my childhood, never met a kid with a gun that I couldn't get along with.
Now, for inner-city schools? Armed guards, armed teachers, and locks that get latched on the doors at 8:00am sharp. Want to make your way down the haul shooting? Just realize that trained folks will be shooting back.
The "keep the guns away from school" mantra is just further evidence of the pussification of America. Don't buy into it.
G
Guest
·It's just so darned difficult to accept that our society has degenerated to the point where we need to arm our teachers. Realistically, I suppose it's necessary, but it can't be the solution to the problem. We have to teach our kids that not only do they face real-world consequences for their actions, but that all life must be respected.
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125 Posts
I have to jump in here TG. Texas still does not allow us (CHL), teachers, administration, or police to carry ON school premises unless previously authorized by the principal.
However, it was just proposed, in the past week or so, that school principals and teachers, in rural areas where police and sheriffs may have a lengthy delay in getting to an emergency, the ability to carry IF they
have a Texas CHL.
As for the original question- yes. The politically correct indoctrination camps called public schools are nothing more than a shooting gallery for all of the nuts and weak-kneed sisters who have had their feelings hurt. The government has told them it is safe to go kill someone there because NO ONE has a gun, right? Does anyone remember the Jewish Day Care Center a bit over a year ago? He skipped the first two because of armed guards.
Yep, we should not have guns at schools. Some cop or other adult just might stop the bad guy and some kid just might learn some responsibility with a ROTC, 4H, or Boy Scout club, wouldn't they? And we can't have that now, can we?
Denny
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Denny Church on 2001-03-31 00:02 ]</font>
I remember ROTC and being offered NRA training and advertised shooting matches. We even had the Sherrifs dept. come out EVERY YEAR and do a demo...Shooting LIVE AMMO ON THE FOOTBALL FIELD!!! EVERYONE I KNEW WAS ARMED AND WE NEVER HAD A SCHOOL SHOOTING!!!
...never!
I'll never forget the first time I saw a head of lettuce shot by a 222, that was, THROWN IN THE AIR!
Amazing place we live in...That's only been 32 years!
...never!
I'll never forget the first time I saw a head of lettuce shot by a 222, that was, THROWN IN THE AIR!
Amazing place we live in...That's only been 32 years!
Joined
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2,110 Posts
Hello. Mr. Church has it right on CHL in schools, public and private.
For what it's worth, as others' words have shown, "guns" are NOT the problem; something's changed with the young ones. When I was a boy in high school, all of us had rifles or shotguns in our cars for a little hunting after school. We'd never even dream of shooting up the school. We also had
pocket knives; no one got stabbed or cut.
It's not the inanimate objects.
Best to all.
For what it's worth, as others' words have shown, "guns" are NOT the problem; something's changed with the young ones. When I was a boy in high school, all of us had rifles or shotguns in our cars for a little hunting after school. We'd never even dream of shooting up the school. We also had
pocket knives; no one got stabbed or cut.
It's not the inanimate objects.
Best to all.
Joined
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7 Posts
Well, if Dane starts this and Denny posts, then I had to join.
About TX and guns in schools, I've stated my opinion on other forums. Here it is in a nutshell.
CCW or CHL should be allowed in schools. I disagree with the requirement for special training for the teacher beyond the permit requirement as in TX or whatever in your state.
The teacher should not be asked to act as a pseudo-LEO. Does the armed teacher then do the full bat belt with a vest? Does the teacher have the responsibility to act as a first responder? I think this is unreasonable. Let teachers carry if they want. If you want tactical people in regalia - have them also.
I read a post that said teachers should carry only if they can make moving head shots at a distance. Well, that's a nice standard for Ted Bonnet maybe in TX. But not me.
I have training, let me use my CHL at work. I don't want to be a cop.
About TX and guns in schools, I've stated my opinion on other forums. Here it is in a nutshell.
CCW or CHL should be allowed in schools. I disagree with the requirement for special training for the teacher beyond the permit requirement as in TX or whatever in your state.
The teacher should not be asked to act as a pseudo-LEO. Does the armed teacher then do the full bat belt with a vest? Does the teacher have the responsibility to act as a first responder? I think this is unreasonable. Let teachers carry if they want. If you want tactical people in regalia - have them also.
I read a post that said teachers should carry only if they can make moving head shots at a distance. Well, that's a nice standard for Ted Bonnet maybe in TX. But not me.
I have training, let me use my CHL at work. I don't want to be a cop.
Honest, law abiding citizens should not be restricted by the whims of dictatorial politicians and busy-bodied, underworked, overpaid bliss-ninnies with too much time on their hands.
Criminals certainly aren't limited by these morons.
In case I wasn't clear, guns should be allowed without anyone deciding who should or should not be on the "allowed" list.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mute on 2001-04-02 13:19 ]</font>
Criminals certainly aren't limited by these morons.
In case I wasn't clear, guns should be allowed without anyone deciding who should or should not be on the "allowed" list.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mute on 2001-04-02 13:19 ]</font>
Hey gyp-c,
The dang "reply with quote" feature does not appear to be working !???
Anyway, a few years back, some nut went berserk at a Mcdonalds and killed 3 people and wounded a few more. A few more years ago, a student went berserk in Montreal, killing some nursing students at the university.
Yeah, it happens up here too - the problem (IMHO) is Canadians don't even know what CCW is.
How's that for telling the international criminal element to "come to Canada - nobody is armed !" Absolute BS, the whole situation. How many statistics have to be shown before the government realizes that an armed civilian population has a LOWER per capita instance of crime?
As I may have mentioned over on "that other forum", Canadian Federal Customs Agents just recently received the "priveledge" to carry off-duty. More BS - the "priveledge" to defend myself, my family and others in harm's way? Hardly a priveledge.
We got it tough up here. Remember your Canadian friends when we need your help to stop the government from taking all our guns away. (We've got squat in our constitution about the right to keep and bear...)
The dang "reply with quote" feature does not appear to be working !???
Anyway, a few years back, some nut went berserk at a Mcdonalds and killed 3 people and wounded a few more. A few more years ago, a student went berserk in Montreal, killing some nursing students at the university.
Yeah, it happens up here too - the problem (IMHO) is Canadians don't even know what CCW is.
How's that for telling the international criminal element to "come to Canada - nobody is armed !" Absolute BS, the whole situation. How many statistics have to be shown before the government realizes that an armed civilian population has a LOWER per capita instance of crime?
As I may have mentioned over on "that other forum", Canadian Federal Customs Agents just recently received the "priveledge" to carry off-duty. More BS - the "priveledge" to defend myself, my family and others in harm's way? Hardly a priveledge.
We got it tough up here. Remember your Canadian friends when we need your help to stop the government from taking all our guns away. (We've got squat in our constitution about the right to keep and bear...)
G
Guest
·Shane,
I have traveled to almost every country on the globe and have personally been involved in policing (providing) and enforcing the opinions of the US.
To the the members of these countrys leftist, rightist, terrorist, pseudo religous organizations or "Freedom Fighters" depending on what newspaper you read thiers or ours.
My point is that niether you nor I can legislate or regulate either common sense or human free will.
What I have seen is that each and every time
the ability of the citizen to defend himself has been removed either with firearms or fixed blade knives over 6" in length (yes some countries do restrict knives).
The presiding "Govt" or political faction has proceeded to repress, punish and murder any citizens (subjects) that offered a
non-popular opinion.
Children in the United States are not being taught to think independently, adults are expected to remain detached and not get involved. The average citizen is led to believe that the rights of the select outwiegh the moral obligations of the many.
Guns in school or out of school, make CCW legal, make all Guns illegal, ban everything,
have anarchy etc... ideas of the morally corrupt and the speech of the politically savy.
Not one law will change the obligation of the citizen to act responsibly, reasonably, and morally.
If we teach our children personal ethics and integrity combined with solid moral values and demonstrate by example not by dictation we will not need to worry about Guns in or out of school.
Until then the entire debate and news broadcasts are little more than tragedy for cash (advertising $ drives all media) and teachers cannot be expected to arm themselves and I do not believe that any of us will benefit that expectation.
ddifabio,
Well spoken words. We need more people like you to take the time to explain to less than receptive ears, about the positive side of responsible gun ownership. Especially if those ears aren't even on your native soil.
I make it a point to teach as many kids as I come into contact with about the "choice" to own a gun, and the responsibility that comes with that choice. A gun is a tool, no more or less dangerous than a hammer or a baseball bat. It is the holder of that tool that decides what that tool will be used for. I have taken "non-gun" neighbours' kids shooting with me. The parents see a new light (ocassionally) when guns are portrayed in a positive, safe, fun way. It just takes a bit of time and education. Our range has several "junior" clubs. Some of these kids have never even held a gun, let alone fired one. They are brought by grandparents, or friends, or open-minded "non-gun" parents. The range is involved with several charities, and raise money periodically with pin-shoots and other "informal" fun shooting activities. The community needs to know that we are not criminals, just because we own the criminals' tool of choice.
Anyway, this is getting way off topic of this thread, but David, you have nailed it on the head by stating that education is the biggest pro-gun endorsement possible. Our future, and our rights, lay in the hands of the next generation. Teach them well, and teach them often. And tell them to vote when they grow up, dammit.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: shane45-1911 on 2001-04-02 23:00 ]</font>
Well spoken words. We need more people like you to take the time to explain to less than receptive ears, about the positive side of responsible gun ownership. Especially if those ears aren't even on your native soil.
I make it a point to teach as many kids as I come into contact with about the "choice" to own a gun, and the responsibility that comes with that choice. A gun is a tool, no more or less dangerous than a hammer or a baseball bat. It is the holder of that tool that decides what that tool will be used for. I have taken "non-gun" neighbours' kids shooting with me. The parents see a new light (ocassionally) when guns are portrayed in a positive, safe, fun way. It just takes a bit of time and education. Our range has several "junior" clubs. Some of these kids have never even held a gun, let alone fired one. They are brought by grandparents, or friends, or open-minded "non-gun" parents. The range is involved with several charities, and raise money periodically with pin-shoots and other "informal" fun shooting activities. The community needs to know that we are not criminals, just because we own the criminals' tool of choice.
Anyway, this is getting way off topic of this thread, but David, you have nailed it on the head by stating that education is the biggest pro-gun endorsement possible. Our future, and our rights, lay in the hands of the next generation. Teach them well, and teach them often. And tell them to vote when they grow up, dammit.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: shane45-1911 on 2001-04-02 23:00 ]</font>
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8 Posts
I think the few teachers who have or get the proper training should be allowed to carry at school.
Just having a CCW doesn't qualify a person to shift from carrying a gun for self defense(it doesn't even qualify you for that) to carrying one for offensive operations against low-life murdering scum. There just aren't that many people these days with military, hunting, or any kind of shooting experience in the general public like there used to be.
The Columbine SWAT team could provide free training(once they were retrained). If all those guys do is wait outside while children bleed to death, then they would never be missed by the locals.
The attitude crisis that some of today's kids have would be a better target for a permanent solution. Kids will do damn near anything for a few seconds attention ("fame"). If this because they never get attention at home? Because their lives are so soft that they have no grasp of reality? Because the media and intellectual dweebs have been trying to eliminate personal responsibility for decades?
Damned if I know. I'd suggest a public hanging/burning/dismemberment of the next SOB who decides to shoot up a school, although I wouldn't mind if this was applied retroactively to any of the POS freaks who have already done so. My studies of young people (watching MTV - Don't try this at home unless you have a strong stomach) tell me there's a definite lack of guts amoung today's average youth. The though of a neck stretching might just change their future plans. If not, then we wouldn't have to pay the upkeep on them in prison until they finally die of old age.
Just having a CCW doesn't qualify a person to shift from carrying a gun for self defense(it doesn't even qualify you for that) to carrying one for offensive operations against low-life murdering scum. There just aren't that many people these days with military, hunting, or any kind of shooting experience in the general public like there used to be.
The Columbine SWAT team could provide free training(once they were retrained). If all those guys do is wait outside while children bleed to death, then they would never be missed by the locals.
The attitude crisis that some of today's kids have would be a better target for a permanent solution. Kids will do damn near anything for a few seconds attention ("fame"). If this because they never get attention at home? Because their lives are so soft that they have no grasp of reality? Because the media and intellectual dweebs have been trying to eliminate personal responsibility for decades?
Damned if I know. I'd suggest a public hanging/burning/dismemberment of the next SOB who decides to shoot up a school, although I wouldn't mind if this was applied retroactively to any of the POS freaks who have already done so. My studies of young people (watching MTV - Don't try this at home unless you have a strong stomach) tell me there's a definite lack of guts amoung today's average youth. The though of a neck stretching might just change their future plans. If not, then we wouldn't have to pay the upkeep on them in prison until they finally die of old age.
G
Guest
·This is obviously a passionate subject and one that touches all of us wether you are a parent, gun-owner or not (I am a parent).
Although I do feel that we have created a system of inequality and mediocrity in our educational and legal institutions, I also feel that labeling individuals (I am an intellectual dweeb) can make it tough to get the average person to listen and make it even harder for all of us.
I believe in our system of Government and in the criminal justice system, I feel that it is our overall lack of support that has resulted in the decline of this system.
Think about it, how many people do you know or encounter just in the shooting circles that will openly criticize the politicians, the Govt, the judges etc..
Now will these same individuals commit the time to fix it, will they go to law school become judges and work to institute justice.
Will they volunteer for commuinty action programs, citizens police academies, how about donate the proceeds from the newest HK trade/sale to the policeman and firefighters benevolent fund, the VA, the american legion,
victims of domestic violence, pay thier child support ...any worhtwhile cause, pick one.
Too many people today often express frustration at thier environment and the inability of the individual to change it.
I have always believed this is utter nonsense
as it is and always has been the responsibility and duty of the individual to act responsibly, reasonably, and morally.
How many of us practice communicating and listening as often as we will practice drawing from the holster?
As parents,professionals, law enforcemnt officers,etc..do we view the resonsibilities of life in the same light as we view the seriousness of the "job".
We are all called upon each day to defend our lives and our country, we can also defend our future without a gun in hand through community and family activities.
You do not need to have ever been there and done that and lived to tell another day to understand what I am asking.
As Desert Dog mentions teach, mentor, comit yourself follow the true warrior spirit.
We do not need to answer violence with violence, we need to help the less fortunate, educate the untrained.
Because if we fail to teach the current and the next generation the value of these rights these truths we hold to be self evident they will surely dispose of them and vote or give them away as they will not look at them as important or valuable.
That would be a diservice to all that have come before us,the men and women that fought for these rights and spilled blood in the name of liberty.
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