[Robe]

I bought a gun from a poster on this site. He has shorted me two mags on the deal in my opinion and somewhat mislead me on the condition of the gun. He has since apparently removed his email address from his profile. He has not answered me reguarding my beef with him. He continues to post and sell guns/items here on this board. Is my criticism of him allowed on this site? If so...where? I feel that if there is a "for sale" area, then we should be allowed to post our opinions for others as a wrning or endorsement to others. I agree that we must stay factual and brief. Where can I do this?
Thanks. Robbie Robeson.

 

[Shane1911]

IMHO, if we start going this route - it will ultimately lead to the complete banning of WTB/WTS posts. This is exactly why a lot of other forums don't allow "for sales". I'm sure most members of this forum post with honesty and integrity, but it still comes down to BUYER BEWARE. You don't know WHO you are dealing with, or WHAT you are really buying when you shop electronically. Buying from a "reputable" company even has risks on line.

Sorry you got "taken", but I don't think we need to go this route.

Other opinions????


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shane Kropf on 2001-06-13 16:05 ]</font>

 

[Neal]

Yes, my opinion is: tell me who it is so I know what I might be getting into if I were to make a purchase from this seller. And Shane, name a gun forum that does not allow "for sale" ads. All the forums I visit have them, even the 1911 Forum has a nuetered for sale forum for anything but firearms.

 

[Shane1911]

On 2001-06-13 16:16, Neal wrote:
Yes, my opinion is: tell me who it is so I know what I might be getting into if I were to make a purchase from this seller. And Shane, name a gun forum that does not allow "for sale" ads. All the forums I visit have them, even the 1911 Forum has a nuetered for sale forum for anything but firearms.

Right, no guns for sale on 1911forum. The point I made is in the best interest of this forum, as a gun discussion format. We are not a supermarket, nor are we the Better Business Bureau. We have are here simply to share our experiences with firearms. I do not believe there is anything to gain here by publically crying foul if a deal goes sour.

I appreciate your comment about wanting to know who the seller is, but then what? Am I as a moderator supposed to act on it? Is Dane supposed to ban him from the site? I still believe that this was a personal deal between the buyer and seller, and best to leave it at that. All it will lead to is more bickering and arguing (of which we have all seen enough of lately).

If, on the other hand, more of you want to know this info, I am not opposed to it being posted publically. Ultimately it will be Dane that decides this call.

 

[Dane Burns]

Robbie you bet your comments are welcome. I want the person's name, phone # and address. The result will be my conversations with both parties to resolve the issue hopefully to both parties satisfaction.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dane Burns on 2001-06-13 17:04 ]</font>

 

[Shane1911]

Then so be it! My only concern is who are we going to believe? Why do we have any right to name names, without any factual evidence that a foul occured? Too many names are getting trashed because of differences of opinion, or some score left unsettled from long ago. Maybe this deal gone bad was simply a misunderstanding on the BUYER'S part (no offence, Robbie). Maybe the two mags were never part of the deal in the first place? I don't know that they were supposed to be included - and never will - so what's the point of naming the seller?

OK - rant mode off - I've made my point, and fortunately this is still a democracy - so name the names if we must. Be prepared for the consequences and rebuttals from the seller.

PS - I'm NOT the seller :grin:

 

[Blackjack]

What Shane said. It will be a no-win policy...

 

[Dane Burns]

WHOA! there big guy! The first thing I will do, at my own expense, is call the two parties and see if I can't broker the transaction to everyone's satisfaction.

One thing I have learned in customer service..through some hard knocks BTW, is the customer is always right.

Guy's unhappy reverse the deal, pretty simple. No harm, no foul. Excuses from either side aren't needed. The idea of a 3 day inspectin is a long time condition of buying in the firearms field. I buy guns and accessories all the time from private sales and companies and all subscribe to that method of helping each other out.

Does't matter if it is $5. or $3500. which is what my last deal was. You have a right to inspect and return, as new, anything offered on this board.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dane Burns on 2001-06-13 17:05 ]</font>

 

[Shane1911]

Dane, as if you are not busy enough !!!! :wink:

Then I still stand by my original point, that it is unecessary to name names. A private email should be sent to you - and you alone - with sellers name, if you are choosing to take on the role of mediator.

Good luck! :roll:

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shane Kropf on 2001-06-13 17:09 ]</font>

 

[Robe]

Shane- Odly enough,I just about agree with you. It is really hard to police these types of things. The only additional angle I could add to this subject is that the reason I traffic this site is because of those individuals that donate and contribute thier time to offer these forums. I come here because I value their opinions, knowledge,wisdom, advice, etc. I guess I make the mistake of going maybe a step too far in also trusting that the individuals who also traffic this site and offer things for sale might also be reputable, knowledgeable, etc. I also feel a sense of "bonding" or "memebership" when I sign on and start participating on a forum.
I feel that the members here should speak up and correct someone( in a responsible manner) that may have given out wrong information or advice. The ultimate goal is the transfer of true/correct knowledge and experience to others. If another person is using this board to take advantage of people, we should share info and try to protect ourselves. This "deal" I am talking about is not as bad as it sounds. The gun is fine. It has more rounds thru the gun IN MY POINION than I was told, it was extremely dirty when I got it, and the tritium vials in the the rear site are bad, but it is basically fine and I am satisfied with it. I intend to change the site anyway. I was told there were more accessories included with the gun than I received... a dollar value of about $50.00 out of a $2,000.00 purchase. As I said, not a big deal. It just bothers me when I see people log onto a forum and post things for sale as their first posts and really don't contribute any other way. My mistake was buying it over the internet. Because of several problems recently like this, I am not going to do it again. It is just so tempting when you have an interest in something unique or limited in quantity and try to use something like the internet to buy these items.
I am still trying to deal with this person. I appreciate Dane's offer help. I will give it a little more time before I take up Dane's offer. This series of "anonymous"
posts is more than enough for the person to realize what it's about. How he will react, I cannot predict. He does not post an email address on his profile now, he has not answered my emails with an answer. Maybe he will speak out in public here and tell his side of it all. Glad to have the opportunity to voice our feelings on these things. It is basically my personal problem. I just wanted to tell people about my experience good or bad.

 

[Shane1911]

Robbie, your response above makes a lot of sense as well. I am truly sorry you got "taken."

You are absolutely correct - it is hard not to feel a "bond" with the community that has developed here. Thanks to the hard work of Dane, Desert Dog, Peter and the (not-so-hard-working :wink: ) crew of moderators, this site has developed quite a character of its own - with its own unique problems and characteristics. That is one of the big problems with the internet - no one feels like a stranger any more. Sometimes it's necessary to give yourself a reality check, and remind yourself that you really don't know who's at the other end of that keyboard. Some members I know personally, some I know professionally, but most I know not at all - and yet I still consider a portion of the latter group as my "friends".

If you choose to let Dane know who the offending party is, I'm sure Dane will deal with the information accordingly. It took a lot of guts for you to post the question first about releasing the identity , before simply smearing the name all over this forum, which quite frankly would have been my initial reaction. I'm glad to see that calmer heads do sometimes prevail on this forum of late :grin: - and for that I must thank you again.

PS - I'm really not the seller :wink:

 

[Dane Burns]

Fair enough. Here is my thought on the thread and outcome. If anyone is using this forum to profit from and is acting in a inappropriate manner during a finacial transaction I want to know about it. A dissatisfied business relationship is one thing....Bill Cooke and Mark Morris are sterling examples from my past.

In this case we have the ability to police ourselves and after dealing with lots of folks I would not care to again, "I am once bitten and twice shy".

Ask for my help and I will gladly offer it. Take advantage of the forum and it's membership and you'll quickly be banned from using it.

I think in the next little while you will find that current email addresses will be mandatory to sell anything on this forum.

Here is the one thing that the internet does well and is the key to using it IMO. You have the ability to reach any number of people by posting here, I suspect several THOUSAND at this point on pistolsmith.com alone. I have used that power to get a number of business' attention and change their customer service and quality of product. Why? Because YOU CAN! I seen no reason anyone else should loose money because I didn't speak up.

 

[JohnnyO]

I have mixed feels about this. Part of me agrees that it will be hard to tell who is telling the truth, as well as who screwed who. However, the other part of me would sure want to know, because I buy from people on the net, too.

Either way it turns out, I think it was a real nice guesture for Dane to act as an intermediary.

 

[Dane Burns]

I talked to both gentlemen today and I think a workable solution is in progress. Bottom line is a offer for a complete refund was made, not accepted and the details are being worked out on an ameniable level for both parties.

 

[Shane1911]

 

[JohnnyO]

Cool Shane..

 

[Mute]

Dane,

If you're actually going to intervene, then, I think it's better to try to resolve the grievances in private and if one party proves dishonorable, then make it know publicly.

 

[S.L. Caldwell]

Way to go Dane . Talking about it was way better than starting a war between two guys .