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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just got a USP standard .45, and yesterday I took the conceiled carry class and passed the shoot with it. So as soon as my paperwork goes through (which should be no problem 'cause I used to be an armed courier for BRINKS), I will be able to pack it. But I am not sure the best way to do it. Any of you USP vets have any suggestions?
LionHeart!
 

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The USP 45 is a BIG PUPPY, a wide one too. Good gun in my opinion, but not the most convenient to tote around. However, if you are ever unfortunate enough to get in a gun fight I am sure that you won't be kicking yourself for not bringing a beretta jetfire to defend yourself with, so - more power to you brother.

My advice for carry is this: Strong side carry ON the belt with the holster placed just behind the hip, then wear a vest or a covering garmet to conceal the pistol.

I don't think IWB is going to work well for you with your same size clothes. If you are willing to buy new pants that are 2" larger in the waist then it may work fine, but I don't think you are going to be able to comfortably conceal such a large gun in your conventional clothes.

As for a shoulder holster, I think the size of the gun will remove this option also, unless you are a big boy and you wear the gun vertically positioned and not horizontally as the butt (I think) will print in a big way.

I do not at all like off body carry when it can be avoided as it is hard to get to the gun when you need it and it is easier for someone else (badguy OR an innocent but igonorant person) to find the gun. If you can feel the gun on you then you at least know where it is and that you have it.

Lastly, one final piece of advice, and you probably know it anyway. I put it here because it took me some time and money to learn it and I don't want you to have to repeat my mistake. There are NO good holsters that cost 12 dollars. Please do not buy some combo shoulder-holster-on the waistband- in the waistband nylon - belt clip piece of garbage with a magazine pouch sewn right on it and carry such a good gun in that. There are many good holsters out there, find one you like and get that one. Carrying a gun is a pretty serious thing and it deserves respect. (again, you probably already know this).

Good for you for getting a permit. I want all the armed good guys out there the streets will hold. The life you save may be one of my kids or mine.

PS - you and me and all of us need to get as much training as we can in order to be able to effectively use that piece of life saving gear.

Good luck brother, let us know how it turns out and what you get.

Jake
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Great info,
Thanks for the advice Jake.
And ya, you're right, she's not tiny. But I figured I should start with the question,"What would I want in my hand in a fire fight?" and go from there. I LOVE this thing, but I am only 6'1" & 165# so I am gonna have to figure out how to hide it. I think with winter clothing it won't be too hard, but the summer is gonna be tougher, and I may have to look for a smaller carry gun for the summer.
Thanks for the help, I'll just have to go holster shopping,
LionHeart!
 

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I think all the USP's are great guns, but I have only owned the USP45. I have handled a USP45C but it was a strange experience for me. I was really close to buying a USP40C but it felt a lot different in my hand than the full size. (probaby just me). The usp compact is just about the only gun I favor in a .40. To me the thickness of the USP compact 45 coupled with the short barrel make it a questionable proposition. I like to shoot 230 grain .45's and it seems like the velocity envelope would not be good in that platform. The .40 seems to work great out of that barrel length and the people I know who own them swear by them and carry them daily. The only other 40's I like are the G22/23.

What are you shooting in your USP45C? 165gr HP's or what? I ask out of curiousity because I definately consider myself a student on this board and not one of the "teachers". I come here to learn and not to enlighten anyone with what I think. Mainly when I give an opinion I do it so people more knowledgeable than I can explain that I am wrong and why - then I can get smarter instead of just reading my own posts and telling myself that I'm cool.

So, how do you like your USP45C? What are you carrying it in? What round do you carry in it for defense. (If you are unfortunate enough to live in an area where you can't do these things then what would your choices be if you were able to carry it for defense?)

Good shooting to you.

Jake
 

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I haven't gotten it yet. And you're right, it's a bit chunky, that short .45 barrel is a bit disconcerting, and there is some muzzle flash when firing American Eagle 230 gr loads. But it feels great in the hand and makes BIG holes. Got to love it.

I've heard that the polygonal rifling increases velocity somewhat and takes a bit of the sting out of the shorter barrel.
 

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I carry mine in a Milt Sparks Heritage IWB stoked with 230 gr. hydrashoks.

This holster conceals very well, and I'm only 5'8" and 150 lbs. I find the USPC 45 only slightly bigger than the USPC 40 (only 5% accordning to HK literature). Not enough for me to want a 40.

Mas Ayoob has said that modern top of the line JHPs like the hydra are designed to open up at low velocity, so I don't worry about it much.

I have tried the 185 gr. Corbon, but too much recoil for me.

Get one, you won't regreat it! :grin:
 
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I like to carry my USP .45 loaded with Texas ammo's 230gr GD Super loads.

It rides strong side hip, IWB in a Garritty Incognito.

As to short barreled ballistics, it would take a drop off an additional 100 to 150fps to stop your 230gr loads from opening out of the USP45C, FWIW I would strongly suggest you worry about something important like trigger pull and sight picture.

Oh, and friends don't let friends carry 165gr JHP loads in their .45, Jake please shoot them up on your next trip to the range or use them for Rabbit hunting or maybe frogs....

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: David DiFabio on 2001-09-24 21:05 ]</font>
 

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David,

Frogs eh? :lol:

Hrm, since I'm over six foot nine, maybe I'll get TWO USP45's and carry them IWB
Oh, and a MP5K underneath the trenchcoat :grin:


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<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: JLM on 2001-09-25 06:19 ]</font>
 

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David DiF-
I am with you. I have no 165 grain 45 rounds. I am a fan of 230 grain and of 180 grain in the .40. I just think that 230 gr rounds in a USP compact are not optimal in addition to the fact that I like to shoot 45 in a 230 grain format. That's why the USP compact is the only gun that I prefer in a .40. Its the only combo that I think is actually better in that platform than either bumping up to a 45 or dropping to a 9mm.

IE - 1911 - I say definately get the .45 and aviod the 40
HK P7 - I say drop down to a 9mm and not the .40

I can see using a 185gr in a compact 45 but not a 165gr. But, again, I am a student here and mainly post for sanity checks on what I think. You David, I consider to be a teacher here, so what do you think of the 185gr 45 acp rounds in a commander sized gun?

Jake
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks guys,
Glad to see that I am not the only in the middle of the holster / ammo debate. Confusing stuff for someone who just wants to make sure they can cover thier ass when they have to.
Before I posted this I was already sold on the USP 45, and 230g HydraShocks, but now just have to find a good, comfortable way for me to carry it. I will just have to find a gun store (hopefully here in Salt Lake City) that will let me try some out and see what I like.

Thanks for all the info,
LionHeart!

P.S. I have fired a full auto MP5, and if there was any way to pack THAT, I know I would never worry. SSSWWWWEEEEEEEEET Gun!
 
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Jake,
Flattery, flattery..... Seriously all that I know is that I need to know more.

I will give your question a shot,
Well it is not as much a case that the loads are bad, rather the 185gr loadings are “ok”. The main failing has not been weight or velocity or energy or any other ridiculous marketing claim, but rather a lag in technology advancements. The disadvantage has been that the 185gr class does not have the engineering research and development time that the more popular 230gr and to a lesser extent the 200gr loadings receive from the bullet designers. In comparison to their “bigger” siblings the GD 185 and GS 185 loadings are very poor performers, the Hydra Shock is a notorious failure in the 185 class, so you have run out of current premium loadings, even the “old” silvertip is mediocre in comparison to a 230gr GD or GD+P loading.

In comparison the 230gr premium bullets are heavily designed, tested, and reevaluated.

The end result has been that we have two distinctly different camps within the 185gr class, the "older" traditional design that often experiences cavity plugging and failure to expand like the Remington 185gr jhp.

This was followed by a seriously misguided trend to build extra pressure/higher velocity for the caliber rounds that go far beyond the structural design limitations built into the bullets core construction. This did not help the Remington 185gr jhp +P as it now penetrates to a much deeper level given the poor cavity design and increased velocity. On the other hand the Nosler, Sierra, and Rainer are equally poor for a different reason; These rounds are often more dangerous as they present the end user with a false sense of safety, this is very similar to the old security/liability argument that you do not really need working security cameras in your establishment, just have "dummy" cameras they are enough of a deterrent... Well as we have learned the cameras are not a sufficient deterrent and a great number of victims were raped, injured, and brutally murdered and the survivors all stated that they believed that help would arrive at any time, so they did not mount an aggressive defense as they believed they were secure and help was on the other end of the cameras, today we have been flooded with the marketing hype and outlandish claims that the mere presence of a gun or the mere use of a bullet that is smaller than your thumb, that possess less physical momentum than a 12oz can of soda falling off of the counter onto your foot can somehow stop a 200lb predator.

Although this is paraphrasing, I want to reinforce that the image of handgun performance and ability has been heavily overdone, the performance of the 185gr jhp and +P jhp is certainly better than other smaller calibers.
But one should not rely heavily on these rounds as these shallow penetration rounds are creating the false illusion of bullet/wounding performance.
It is this reality that makes the performance of the “magic” round so sought after and the overall performance of your bullet so very important.
A truly effective bullet does not optimize one are for increased performance in another, velocity does not improve performance, penetration beyond optimum does not help, talons, fiberglass, shot, plastic, do not help unless the bullet is designed for a wide range of environments and potential targets.

To return to your question;

Going to one of these 165gr or 185gr rounds due to a shorter barrel or perceived lower velocity is not a good idea; the loss in expanded overall diameter in comparison to a premium 230gr jhp loading or even a next generation 200gr loading like the GD 200gr +P as compared to a higher velocity short barrel jhp diameter is truly insignificant and it is truly a very unimportant subject.

The inability of your chosen bullets to effectively penetrate the heavy tissues and bone structures of the predator attacking you will, I promise you be a very serious issue.
It will change your life forever.

For those persons that must also depend upon the ability to pass through intermediary barriers to reach the target, they are going to need to transition to a more effective loading almost immediately as they will quickly discover they have been lied to and “sold a bill of goods”.

If you are changing to one of these loadings for the reduced recoil to increase or assist you in being more accurate and give you the ability to generate follow-up rounds then it is something to consider and the failure/fragmentation and under penetration risks may be outweighed by the need to effectively deploy your defensive weapon.

As always, test before you carry and use what you are confident in.
 
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