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Discussion Starter #1
I just read an Internet article about the 9x23 that was written in 2003. I have become intrigued by the possibility of a high capacity semi-automatic with 357 magnum ballistics. How is the 9x23 cartridge faring ? Is it gaining in popularity or floundering ? I can find no production guns in that caliber. Everything seems to be custom. (A cost problem for a husband and father supporting a wife and three children.) Could an EAA full size 38 Super Witness be modified to safely fire this round ?
 

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Unfortunately it is not growing in popularity...

no one makes a gun for it...

most 38 supers or 9mm can be adapted to fire the cartidge by either replacing the barrel and fine tuning the extractor, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
It is indeed unfortunate that the 9x23 isn't gaining traction. Duplicating the 125 grain 357 magnum stopping power with less muzzle flash and felt recoil is a remarkable achievement. It would seem to be the perfect round. The case of the 38 Super won't take the needed pressure and the 357 Sig doesn't have the magazine capacity. Does any one out there have an explanation for the 9x23's lack of success ?
 

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I for one am starting a build project for a 9x23 government sized 1911 starting with a Mil-Spec 38 super Springfield. I would contemplate that the lack of popularity comes from the fact the 38 super fills the need in competition. For ccw though I would expect people just don't know about it and those that do need to build a custom / modified firearm. Both are a lot more work than just stepping up to the counter and purchasing your ccw. I for one was looking extensively for one of the Springfield factory 9x23 guns. I found a Colt 9x23 but the price was out of line compared with starting with a base 38 super and modifing it. What is need is some more magazine articles about the vertues of the 9x23 and some at least limited production runs from Springfield & Colt etc. That is my 2 cents.
 

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It is too bad..that this cartridge hasn't found its popularity..

there are a lot of guns that could run the cartidge..

Springfield, Kimber and Colt could all make gun from what they have now..

Sig could make one off the 220 frame, just like the 38 super they used to make.

Glock could make one off the G20 and G29

Smith could make one off the DK38 super, the 940, the 686 38 super, and the 8 shot 627.

EAA..has the Witness in 38 super.

just think..if all these makers would tool for a run of 9x23..maybe the ammo makers would make us a 115, 124, and 147 loadings..

then maybe someone would make a cool carbine to run 9x23 in...that would be cool too..a 16" barreled M4 style carbine with a 30-35 round mag...

oh...guess I was day dreaming again..
 

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I guess tha question I wish to pose is: What can we - the users of 9x23w - do to make it more popular and happen?
Reloading data in an orginized fashion would help -
A summary on the carttrige - like Danes is good.
Maybe a more hands on how to do information would help.

A question to ask is : why is the 38 super so popular?
Just my 2 cents
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Actually, I stumbled upon the 9x23 researching the 38 Super on the Internet. I think there is a market out there for a high capacity semi-automatic that approaches the 357 magnum. That was certainly what I was seeking in the 38 Super, high capacity and better ballistics than the 9x19. We seem to have a chicken and egg problem going on here. The 9x23 won't be in demand until reasonably priced guns are available. Manufacturers won't produce these guns until there is a demand. I guess we need to get a "Dirty Harry" type character to carry a 9x23 in a big budget Hollywood "shoot-em-up". The 9x23 would need a hook in the movie like the 44 magnum had in "Dirty Harry". Maybe it could be "the best manstopper this side of a 12 gauge".
 

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There is in fact a weapon being built currently in 9x23. I know, I just had one built for me by Nighthawk Custom. It's a Talon 5" in 9x23. It's a nice weapon and runs perfectly.

I also have Nighthawk's in 9mm and 10mm (as well as several in 45ACP) so I have a lot of experience with their 1911 platforms in "alternate calibers." After shooting the 9mm and 10mm Nighthawks quite a bit I knew they could build a great 9x23 and they did exactly that for me.

The 9x23 is not just an outstanding cartridge, it's a great match to the 1911. I just wish there was more factory ammo available for it. I will not do ccw with reloads so factory loaded ammo is a must for my ccw use. If the ammo selection was better, there would probably be more interest in the caliber. But it is a chicken and egg deal because I'm sure the ammo manufacturers are waiting for more weapons to be chambered in 9x23 just as the firearm amnufacturers are watching the ammo availability before making the weapons. Now if they would just get together.....

I have carbines in several pistol calibers and I would absolutely be an instant buyer for a quality built carbine in 9x23 if somebody ever starts doing one. That would be a great carbine set up and the velocity would be pretty darn zippy from the longer barrels I'm guessing, hehehe.
 

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I'll drop in a couple of pennies of opinion also. The 9x23 is a great cartridge, no doubt. I have two and I mostly shoot reloads. The ammo is expensive and very hard to find. If I run across a box or two of factory loads, I'll buy them if the price is not too stiff.

The next obstacle is there is no publicity. A movie or a few magazine articles would help. Most folks have never heard of it. I have had people at the range ask me what I am shooting and when I reply... they usually have a stumped look on their face. I usually tell them it is a .38 Super on steroids and include it is the auto pistol's answer to the revolver's .357 mag.

The .357 Sig took off like a rocket and it is not as good as the 9x23. I have one and it is not that impressive, to me.

So, if you know some of the gun magazine writers, ask them to do a few test and articles on a pistol in 9x23, .38 TJ, or something similar. (They probably won't unless someone spends a chunk of advertising $$$$ with them. Notice the guns that get tested over and over. Yep, the big advertisers.) Anyway, if Baer, Wilson, Springfield, Kimber, or Glock would build a 9x23 it would get plenty of print.

OK, I'll quit crying.


Buddy
 

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Lack of advertising, availability, when was the last time you saw a big name shooter win a match with a 9x23, expensive ammo, etc. All of these are good points that when taken together would make any product fade into obscurity.

So what do we do to remedy the situation? Mag articles would help as would a run of factory guns. Rob Leatham (or any other recognizable shooter) winning a major match would really help. Relatively inexpensive ammo would be great for those that don't reload. We could try "re-introducing" the caliber with a different name. It's been my experience that American shooters (not all, just those that are uninformed) shut their brains down whenever they hear 9 in front of anything. I've actually had other shooters ask me what I was shooting and after I told them 9x23 they looked at me and said, "oh, a 9mm". I tried to explain all about 9x23 but the glassy eyed stare I received told the story. So how about we call 9x23 something like (all with permission from the cartridge designer first) ... 357 Super, 355 Maximum, 355 Auto, 355 Magnum, you get the idea.

We could start emailing pistol mfg's to produce a run of 9x23. We could email cci and ask that they bring back the 9mm Largo. Who's up for an email campaign?
 

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Todd Jarret shoots a .38 TJ which is about the same as a 9x23 from my understanding. I am not sure because I have never had the chance to see one. He has been known to win a few matches, have you heard much about that cartridge? Probably not, I saw one magazine article on it.

I am on your team...I will e-mail or send letters. Start things going! You the man!

Buddy
 

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38 TJ is basically a rimless 38 Super with a modified extractor groove. The modified groove allows more of the case to be surrounded by the chamber. As far as velocity goes the 38 TJ stops where the 9x23 starts. Anyone know how to get an online petition started?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Getting an article or two in the leading gun magazines extolling the virtues of the 9x23 would help. Perhaps a name change for the caliber is in order. 9x23 doesn't say much about the power of the round. How about referring to it as a 9 millimeter magnum ?
 

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The article I read had the .38 TJ pushing 1700/1800 fps. so they must be close (9x23-.38 TJ). I have heard of the 23 being pushed to some HIGH velocities, too.

Seems I've heard of a 9 mm magnum before, but you are right, a name change may help.

As far as getting an on line petition started...look to someone else. I am doing good to type this. I am not computer literate, I am more illegitimate.

I am sure there are many more folks out there with the 9x23 than we think there are. I have two and several friends have them also. I feel that most folks are like me, load and shoot, load and shoot. We never approach the firearms manufacturers or ammo companies and ask for new loads or guns. We accept whatever is on the shelf.

As I said before, if I come across a box of 9x23 factory ammo, that is not too expensive, I buy it. I would love to see some different bullet configurations on the market.

Buddy
 

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Discussion Starter #18
You were right. 9 mm magnum was used for a short lived 9x29.5 Winchester cartridge for the Wildey gas operated semi automatic. It's ballistics were decidedly unimpressive. I suppose 9 mm Super is still available.
 

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Just my thought...could be wrong.

I think for there to be public acceptance, some small double action autos will have to be made for this cartridge as well as some larger double stacks as well. I think its going to have to come in a variety of packages stating that it has to power of a .357 magnum. One thing the .40 Smith is probably in the same leage as .357 for service pistol use. I do perfer the 9x23 though and hope it survives.
 

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buddy_fuentes said:
The article I read had the .38 TJ pushing 1700/1800 fps. so they must be close (9x23-.38 TJ). I have heard of the 23 being pushed to some HIGH velocities, too.
Is this with 124 grain Bullets? Is this with compensated guns. I am content with 1450 out of 5 inch guns but would love to have that speed out of 4.5 inchers. I don't think I would want to go past 1550 for my uses even if that much, recovery time for me.

What kind of brass life at those velocities?
 
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