[Bill Caldwell]

9MM IN 9X23

Hey Buddy,
Some are gonna' say I'm bein' a bad influence on You. .....9x19 in a 9X23.

Thanks
Bill Caldwell

 

[teamcorbon]

Re: 9X23 is slower than the .38 Super with the DPX from Cor

9X23 shows 100fps slower than the .38 Super from Cor Bon with the DPX. I wonder what the loads and especially the internal ballistics are like? Does the increased capacity of the .38 Super make up for the presumbably lower pressure? I suspect the DPX takes up space in the case more like a heavier weight lead bullet?

I wonder if the best of the .38 Super combined with long loaded 9X19 in race guns and oddballs like the .38TJ will combine to leave no place for the 9X23 to grow?

Clark,

We load the 9x23 DPX to perform within certain parameters. The maximum penetration we wanted in 10% ballistic gelatin was 17". That's where we stopped with the 9x23 in the DPX load. If we load it to max pressure, it would penetrate way more than we feel is needed in a defensive loading.

 

[Steve in Allentown PA]

The actual results reports I've got from a friend overseas are very impressive. <snip> The PowRball round has shown GREAT promise! <snip> If we load it to max pressure, it would penetrate way more than we feel is needed in a defensive loading.

Mike,

Don't tease us like that. We need to hear the rumors and stories.

So, if you don't mind, how about some more details on what "very impressive" means and how much do you think a max loaded round would penetrate?

Of course, you can't give too many details. Afterall, we wouldn't want to compromise anyone or give away any trade secrets. You never know, you may be able to talk me out of Silvertips and into PowRballs.

 

[teamcorbon]

Steve,

I really can't give much in detail (who or where). I can say that a shot to the back of the head from 30 ft with a 9x23 PowRball round from a 4" gun looked like a high power rifle wound on the front of the BG's head. It impressed me enough to get a barrel for my 5" 9mm 1911.

9x23 PowRball penetration in our tests using "properly prepared" 10% ballistic gelatin gives 14" with a recovered bullet that is almost flat and the size of a quarter.

The 9x23 DPX penetrates 17" and recovered diameters are in the .55" area.

The 125 JHP load penetrates about 13" and recovered diameters are @.60-.65"

This was our testing. We don't like quoting our figures, but there are no independent test results out there with these loads.

 

[Steve in Allentown PA]

It sounds like what you would expect from a .357 which, as we all know, is what the 9x23 is.

As I've said in another post, I had the opportunity to speak face-to-face with John Ricco the inventor of the 9x23. One of the things that impressed me most was the penetration of FMJ's. He said he'd not seen any other pistol cartridge with the same penetration characteristics.

He told me about the time he was at the range along with a local cop who was testing a full length ballistic shield. I think some refer to these things as mobile bunkers. It has a window and the cops line up behind it as they advance on the bad guys. Anyway, the cop was shooting everything he had on hand at this thing to see how it would hold up. Then he ask Ricco to shoot his 9X23 at it. Apparently the 9x23 was the only round that caused the side opposite the impact to bulge out. He figured if hit the same spot a second time the 9x23 would have defeated the "bunker."

I'd also read somewhere that Winchester didn't produce an FMJ load specifically because of its extreme penetration.

Still, penetration has its advantages especially against bad guys with body armor and bad guys wearing heavy winter clothing or motorcycle leather.

 

[louishob2]

Steve,

I really can't give much in detail (who or where). I can say that a shot to the back of the head from 30 ft with a 9x23 PowRball round from a 4" gun looked like a high power rifle wound on the front of the BG's head. It impressed me enough to get a barrel for my 5" 9mm 1911.

9x23 PowRball penetration in our tests using "properly prepared" 10% ballistic gelatin gives 14" with a recovered bullet that is almost flat and the size of a quarter.

The 9x23 DPX penetrates 17" and recovered diameters are in the .55" area.

The 125 JHP load penetrates about 13" and recovered diameters are @.60-.65"

This was our testing. We don't like quoting our figures, but there are no independent test results out there with these loads.

Sounds like the 9x23 PowRball is an extremely impressive round. However, Corbon isn't going to sell much of it if you need custom guns in the $2000 range to shoot it. Do cartridge manufacturers such as Corbon have any influence at all on gun manufacturers ? We need somebody making 9x23 handguns at reasonable prices before the 9x23 can take off.

 

[Bill Caldwell]

$2000.00 Custom 9x23

No need to spend $2000.00 for a 9x23. Any 1911 with a 9mm or 38 Super slide can be a 9x23 by fittin' a 9x23 barrel...at the worst, might have to work on or replace extractor and ejector. If no 9x23 barrels are handy...chamber a 9x19 or 9x21 to 9x23......To convert a 45cal.or a 40 cal 1911, buy a 9mm/38Super slide, fit a 9x23 barrel, change ejector and extractor,install other needed parts.

Thanks,
Bill Caldwell

 

[louishob2]

Re: $2000.00 Custom 9x23

No need to spend $2000.00 for a 9x23. Any 1911 with a 9mm or 38 Super slide can be a 9x23 by fittin' a 9x23 barrel...at the worst, might have to work on or replace extractor and ejector. If no 9x23 barrels are handy...chamber a 9x19 or 9x21 to 9x23......To convert a 45cal.or a 40 cal 1911, buy a 9mm/38Super slide, fit a 9x23 barrel, change ejector and extractor,install other needed parts.

Thanks,
Bill Caldwell

If I go the 9MM route, will a 9x23 magazine (assuming I can find one) fit in a 1911 9MM magazine well ? If I go the 1911 38 Super route I'm almost certain I'd need extractor work. We're talking about a rimless vs. a semi rim cartridge. However, the cartridge length is about right. All the custom jobs seem to be based on the 1911. Don't get me wrong, the 1911 is a great design (I've got a Colt Series 80). But I'm looking for a high capacity weapon. Any suggestions for a high capacity 9x23 that I won't have to mortgage the house to purchase ?

 

[poohdawg]

louishob2
Glock 20 = 17 + 1 . Add a plus 2 pad = 3 rounds of 9x23 = 21 shots.

 

[louishob2]

louishob2
Glock 20 = 17 + 1 . Add a plus 2 pad = 3 rounds of 9x23 = 21 shots.

I've seen it mentioned a few times in this thread that a Glock 10 MM can be converted to 9x23 with a barrel change. Where can I get a 9x23 barrel for a Glock 20 ? Also, what do I do about the magazine ? Where would I get 9x23 magazines for the Glock ?

 

[grendelbane]

Re: $2000.00 Custom 9x23

If I go the 1911 38 Super route I'm almost certain I'd need extractor work. We're talking about a rimless vs. a semi rim cartridge.

Sounds like you are set on a double stack gun. I would not let the extractor situation be the deciding factor, however. I have a home converted 9x23mm which uses a .38 Super slide. For quite a while I could not decide whether it was a 9x23mm, or a .38Super. Though the extractor was a bit loose with 9x23mm cases, it never failed to function. Eventually, I will adjust the tension on the extractor, and at that point will keep the .38 Super barrel and cases out of that slide.

The difference in diameter is so slight that all it takes is a minor adjustment.

 

[Bill Caldwell]

9x23 mags

Louisbob2,
I don't know that there is a9x23 mag. May be My ignorance showin', I've always used 38Super mags. Rimless or Semi rimless? You won't know if You need extractor work untill You shoot the pistol. Anticipatin' problems often help make them happen.
High capacity weapon???10 round mag of 9x23 with one in the chamber to start.(A 1911) If 11 rounds won't solve the problem...it should at least by You reload time.
If You are thinkin' 2011 S-I or Caspain .....That could run up close to $2000 or over.
I have no idea what can be done with Glunks. I've attended two of their Armourer schools.....Never owned one.
Thanks,
Bill Caldwell

 

[buddy_fuentes]

Mr. Bill, I have such confidence in your knowledge...if you say rain is acoming...I'm looking for rain gear. And you are right as usual, but I do have two magazines, that came with my 9x23 Colt, that are marked 9x23. They are no different than a .38 Super magazine, other than the marking. I use mostly the Super mags because they are stainless, but it doesn't matter.

As written earlier; the 10 mm Glock can be converted to the 9x23 by a change of the barrel and possibly a little magazine tuning. I have not personally tried this conversion at this time. I have e-mailed a few that have and talked with a couple, too. They were pleased with the outcome. Heck, if it fails to meet your expectations, you are out $200.00 for a barrel. You still have a 10 mm Glock. Not too bad a deal in my book.

Best of luck to you.

Buddy

 

[poohdawg]

louishob
Bar-Sto Precision has drop in or match barrels.
Priced from $200-$265.
Glock 20 steel lined magazines work the best . You may have to bend the lips in a little.
I have converted a glock 20 and 29.

 

[grendelbane]

Re: 9x23 mags

I don't know that there is a9x23 mag. May be My ignorance showin', I've always used 38Super mags. Rimless or Semi rimless? You won't know if You need extractor work untill You shoot the pistol.

I doubt that there is a 9x23mm marked magazine being produced nowadays. I vaguely remember seeing one in the mag well of a 9x23mm Colt at a gun show. At the time, my ignorance was such that I was confusing the 9x23mm with the 9mm Steyr, which Colt also produced at one time, within my lifetime, anyway. I would like to know if there is a 9mm Steyr magazine, as well. I can show you pictures of a Colt 9x23mm magazine, but like you, I have always used .38 Super mags.

I suspect that the only difference in any of the 3 would be in the stamping on the floorplate.

As usual, I am late to the party when it comes to the 9x23mm. I was going through some personal issues at the time it was introduced, and have absolutely no memory of the cartridge until a few years ago, even though I have been a .38m Super advocate, owner, and reloader for almost 3 decades.

As you suggest, my experience has been that extractor issues are minimal. Some people get upset when you say "bend" the extractor. However, if you say, "adjust", or "tweak" the extractor, all is well. :roll:

 

[ClarkEMyers]

I've seen 9X23 marked magazines on E-Bay

I've seen 9X23 marked magazines on E-Bay. The price was conversation piece high but likely did not reflect the true rarity - too rich for my blood but not outrageous - about the same as a good two-tone or a Colt .22 Ace.

 

[grendelbane]

I recently saw an entire conversion kit on E-Bay! It included barrel, slide, bushing, spring, ejector and magazine.

I am curious about this. When did Colt try to market this? For how much? My experience with caliber conversions on Gov't model pistols is that it is going to take a lot more work than just installing drop in parts.

Of course, I did just that when I converted my .38 Super to 9mm, but that is the simplest conversion possible, and I was lucky.

Some times I wonder about Colt.

 

[louishob2]

Re: 9x23 mags

Louisbob2,
I don't know that there is a9x23 mag. May be My ignorance showin', I've always used 38Super mags. Rimless or Semi rimless? You won't know if You need extractor work untill You shoot the pistol. Anticipatin' problems often help make them happen.
High capacity weapon???10 round mag of 9x23 with one in the chamber to start.(A 1911) If 11 rounds won't solve the problem...it should at least by You reload time.
If You are thinkin' 2011 S-I or Caspain .....That could run up close to $2000 or over.
I have no idea what can be done with Glunks. I've attended two of their Armourer schools.....Never owned one.
Thanks,
Bill Caldwell

Glunks ? Is that a typo, or do I sense a touch of disdain ?

 

[Dane Burns]

9x23 is doing fine. In fact there is a Colt 9x23 for sale in the foums at this moment :lol: .

 

[Bill Caldwell]

Glunk Disdain

louishob2,
I can assure You and Everybody else I have no Disdain for any weapon that can cause Me great bodily harm....grievious injury or death.....Whether it be a sharpened wood pole, An 11 cent ice pick from 1909...A RG 38 special or a Glunk model 1 thru 99 or how many ever models there are...and whatever model it might be.


Do I hold a glunk in the same esteem that I do a 1911/2011? Certainly not! Not with standin' how good Dave Sirvegy and Julie Goloski do competin' with 'em.

If I have THE CONFRONTATION with THE PUNK....said punk carryin' any of the above mentioned weapons from the stick to the Glunk...will My actions be any different than if the punk was carryin' the finest 1911 ever made? Most certainly not! I'll try to be faster and more accurate than I've ever been before. Like that old sayin' "A rose by anyother name"? A weapon by any other name.....

I've shot glunks over the years.... first real experience was the Glock armourer school, Murray State College. Old friend and I were handlin' one...Old friend is a Hell of a 1911 Hand. Old friend said "Glunkiest Damm Thing I've Ever Handled". From that time and forever more ,...right or wrong ...they will always be glunks to Me.

If Yaw'll will go to Wild Bill Caldwell ...Veiw From the Hills..Read Peace ,Goodwill and Rain....You might get a clearer understandin' of why some of Us older Hands feel the way We do concernin' certain pistols.

Thanks'
Bill Caldwell