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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
How can the IDPA concider this to be a true championship match when they won't allow the shooters that won state and regional titles to participate? A suggestion was made to the board to have the winners of the state matches compete at a regional competition to earn their way to the nationals...they dismissed it by saying that they didn't want a championship that you have to earn.
 

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One of the original concepts of IDPA was an open championship that anyone could attend.
I don't think they ever thought 5,000 would want to attend.

It has been discussed several times about some kind of slotting method. But that never made it any where.

I think I'll talk to them again at the Nationals about it.

Mike
 

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On 2001-08-07 21:01, jm10mm wrote:
How can the IDPA concider this to be a true championship match when they won't allow the shooters that won state and regional titles to participate?
Who said they are not allowed in? They are, they just have to hope for a slot with all the other people who want in.

I can see your point, state winners move to a region, regionals move on to the Nats. But what about the average guy, who works hard, and for a living, and can not afford to travel to a multitude of intermediate matches? Shouldn't this person have a shot at it as well? I think so. I know someone like this and they won SSP SS at the Nats two years ago.

This year, IDPA said you had to have a major match under your belt before you could apply. Meaning a state or regional. That's why there were so many state championship matches in April and May of this year. To get qualified. They are working on it, but it is not a perfect system, especially when, like Mike said, 5000 people want in.

PS: I'm going.
 

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You can't please everybody. Currently, IDPA require that a shooter must shoot in at least one state or regional level match to be eligible for the National. I remember this caused a lot of screaming that this will eventually lead to exclusivism (is this a word?). Some people (the same bunch that don't like the concept of area coordinators) don't even like the suggestion that past champions should be automatically allowed a slot, or that corporate sponsors should have a few slots. I doubt people will go for the automatic entry for the state or regional champions.
 

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John, you and I must have been typing at the same time. You're a little faster on the submit button.
And I'm going also, along with Mike, Rosie, Headhunter, Mayo, John Harrison and Blinder.
 

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Right now the Nats is like a big state championship. Everybody knows everybody, it's friendly and fun. I hope it stays that way. I think it is that way because there are a lot of shooters who are just happy to be there, want to see how good they are, and do not really care if they win anything.

I think they need to let more people in. Last year at our stage, we could get a squad through in 20 min. We were anywhere from 40 min to an hour ahead at lunch and at the end of the day. If they had added 5 shooters per squad, at 8 squads a day, another 120 shooters could have gotten in.

One more thing, if you really want in, and you have it read it is full, just go to the match and see if a slot opens up because someone was a no show. I know at least one shooter who did that last year. If you do not get in, where else can you talk to Richard Heinie while you fondle one of his guns and dream.
 

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I think it is between 300 and 350 counting SO's. Do not know for sure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I think you guys missed my question a little bit. I will be at the Nationals I got accepted as an SO. I look forward to seeing you guys there.

your right is is more like a state match and not a national championship. If they set it up as a championship it would have tiers and would be earned.

Did Ernest,Rob,Todd,etc get passed over?--File that under NEVER. The only slots that are open are the left overs.

I don't disagree its a great bunch of guys getting together to have fun, its just not a national championship.
 

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Did Ernest,Rob,Todd,etc get passed over?--File that under NEVER. The only slots that are open are the left overs.
Actually, Jarret (and Leatham IIRC) didn't get their applications in on time and missed the 1999 nationals.

I don't disagree its a great bunch of guys getting together to have fun, its just not a national championship.
It is a national championship. The national sanctioning body has determined this is the method in which the match will be run. Look at the Bianchi Cup, there are no lesser matches that determine ones acceptability to the main event, but there is no denying the Cup is the pinnacle of the shooting sports. Same for the Steel Challenge. No one is not going to say the winner isn't the "fastest gun" cause there were no state level steel challenges.

I suppose you hit a nerve with me here JM, this is the same statement made blindly by shooters from another dicipline when the feel they need to stick a barb in IDPA.

Ted Murphy

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ted Murphy on 2001-08-08 18:38 ]</font>
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Tis the beauty of free speech, it get the people debating. Maybe they should have called it the "IDPA Cup" or the "National IDPA Challenge" but I'm sorry the word Championship denotes a meeting of Champions and again like Dennis Miller "That just my opinion I could be wrong"
 

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Not to beat a dead horse but the Bianchi Cup is a national championship, in fact, it is the "NRA Action Pistol" Championship, they just have a cool name for it.

And the Steel Challenge is actually the "world speed shooting championships" Again, with no infrastructure to pick who goes. http://www.isishootists.com/steelchallenge/2001/app.htm for the application


Ted
 

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I believe the IDPA now advertises this as a "National" Championship but they had it right in 98 when I went to my first one - the International Defensive Pistol Association Championship. With shooters from Japan and Europe, in addition to the ones from the US, this is an International Championship that happens to occur in the USA.

I shoot several State/Regional Championships each year and I pray along with everybody else that I get a slot at the Nationals. With the exception of the late entry by Rob in 99, I believe the best shooters in IDPA are usually represented at the Nats. It's the same ones that have been kickin my butt all year!

That said, I wouldn't mind seeing the winners of State and Regional Championship Divisions/Classes getting guaranteed slots (assuming they want them and pay up) and I think past Div/Class winners at the Nats should be allowed the opportunity to defend their titles, unless they got moved up. Truth is, most of these folks are there anyway.

I suggest that there be 2 entry deadlines. One for all the "qualified" State, Regional and past National winners and a few weeks later another "open run" for the remaining slots. I also personally think they should just go ahead and make it a 5 day event with a complete match each day. They could probably run 150 shooters each day and do the awards on Saturday night. THAT would be a rip-roarin good time!

Mikey
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Mikey, thats the response I've been looking for. The Nationals sold out in 3 days last year and 1/2 day this year. IDPA needs to do something to allow more shooters to participate. Membership has soared along with the interest in matches. Maybe they could go to an all week match in 2 or 3 waves with awards at the end of the week. That would be a blast and on your off days you could network and party.

Ted,this is not sour grapes, I'm sorry if it sounds like it. Simply put the membership has grown an IDPA should address the problem to evolve as a major sport.
 
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Being the negative and shooter unfriendly person that I am, I will throw in a few caveats about making the Nationals 'bigger'.

1) Although it is true in last year's Nationals, we ran shooters through at a pretty good clip, we were still running about 45 minutes per squad on my stage. We were quite happy about pushing them through that fast. The match only runs as fast as the slowest stage. In '99, my stage ran about 62 minutes per squad on the first day. We worked the shooters like dogs after that to get a squad through in 55 minutes. If we hadn't had a stage crew of 5 hard working SOs, it would have been tough for the match.

2) I have been at the Nats since 98 and we have been blessed with favorable weather. While it has been warm, there has been no inclement weather at any Nationals. Four drops of rain begins to slow any match down noticeably. With any noticeable amount of rain, the pace of a match will decrease by at least 50%. Those who were SOs at the Alabama State this year can remember that we struggled to get the SOs shot in one day on Friday. It is an absolute necessity to have excess capacity as a contigency for inclement weather. Otherwise you can have a situation of the match not finishing at all.

3) Staffing can get to be problematic the longer a match becomes. It is important to have the same people running a stage throughout a championship to ensure consistency of officiating. Getting 70+ people to volunteer for an entire week will probably be difficult. And the longer it runs, the more you need on a per stage basis to alleviate fatigue, both physical and mental.

4) The ability to use the facility for such a long length of time is an issue also. MISS is a very busy facility and might not be available for a longer period. Setup time adds to the time that the facility has to be available. The survey of other possible sites for the Nationals generated a lot of controversy last year because every other facility on the list was in a firearm repressive (Police) State.

I would like to see more shooters have the opportunity to shoot the Nationals, but I am not sure how feasible it is to increase the numbers.

Anyone who REALLY wants to shoot but didn't receive a slot for this year's Nationals could certainly shoot by volunteering to staff the event. :smile: Only one extra day and then you get to shoot and sleep for free. As far as I know, HQ has not turned away anyone who asked to work.

Claude
 

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I have been at the Nats since 98 and we have been blessed with favorable weather. While it has been warm, there has been no inclement weather at any Nationals.
We have been very lucky. It rained real hard one night at the 2000 nats (blew all our targets down) but the next day the weather was good.

With any noticeable amount of rain, the pace of a match will decrease by at least 50%. Those who were SOs at the Alabama State this year can remember that we struggled to get the SOs shot in one day on Friday.
When the So's at the carolina cup shot that thursday we were practically washed away. It does slow down things
It is an absolute necessity to have excess capacity as a contigency for inclement weather. Otherwise you can have a situation of the match not finishing at all.
True. That is why sunday has been left open in the past.
Staffing can get to be problematic the longer a match becomes. It is important to have the same people running a stage throughout a championship to ensure consistency of officiating.
You would need to add an so or two to each stage so they could be given time off to doze under a sunshade, take a walk, etc. That would mean as many as 15 more SO' s would be needed (1 or 2 a bay) , a tall order indeed.
The ability to use the facility for such a long length of time is an issue also. MISS is a very busy facility and might not be available for a longer period. Setup time adds to the time that the facility has to be available.
IIRC we went it for the full week. Last year, I went in early and helped set up. We were almost ready to go Mon PM.
Had we there been a need for it, we might have been ready to start shooting tuesday.

I would like to see more shooters have the opportunity to shoot the Nationals, but I am not sure how feasible it is to increase the numbers.
I think we could add another day of shooting without upsetting things too much. That would add an extra 7-8 squads which could be 80+ more shooters.
Anyone who REALLY wants to shoot but didn't receive a slot for this year's Nationals could certainly shoot by volunteering to staff the event. :smile:
Quite True.

Ted Murphy


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ted Murphy on 2001-08-10 19:16 ]</font>
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Now there are some great suggestions. See what happens when we use a site based management approach to a problem. The more minds you have solving a problem the easier it becomes. Especially when you ask the people in the trenches.
This is what I thought the forum was all about. Thanks.
 
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