[Tom Freeman]

OK gang, I have an IDPA rulebook question for all of you. Where in the IDPA rulebook does it specify that the 180' rule only applies laterally and not vertically? I have checked and checked and still cant find it. At the back end of our berms, if you elevate the muzzle more than 15' and you are pointing at sky.

Here is what happened, I was unloading and showing clear when the SO started barking muzzle. I had no clue what he was talking about so I dropped the slide and froze. I asked him what he meant and he said my muzzle was pointing too high. He then stated its considered unsafe if the muzzle isn’t pointed inside the berm at all times.

What gives? I almost told this SO to show me in the book, but I didn’t want to make a potentially ugly situation worse by being an IPSC whiner. Then I did it again in the following stage during two of three reloads by elevating the muzzle or something. Again he yelled, but this time I just ignored him hoping for a DQ...

Those revo shooters just aren’t right...

Tom
AF Shooting Team

 

[Mikey]

There is no 180 rule in IDPA. Breaking the 180 will not be grounds for a DQ as stated in the current rule book. Any "muzzle safe points" (areas beyond which the muzzle should not pass) must be clearly defined by the SO. These can be orange cones, posts or any other clearly defined point. Once so defined, crossing a muzzle safe point is grounds for a DQ.

In this case there could not have been a penalty for the first infraction of what undoubtedly must be a local club safety rule since the SO had said nothing about it previously. Once informed by the SO that their club considered the confines of the berm to be the muzzle safe points, any future infraction could have resulted in a DQ. Each club is allowed to define what their muzzle safe points are since no two clubs have exactly the same safety criteria.

At our club we do not consider a muzzle pointed over the berm as an infraction but a shot fired over the berm will get you a free ticket home. I don't see how anyone could reload or unload a revolver without the muzzle pointing above the berm, making this particular club's rule seem a little rediculous.


Mikey

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mikey on 2001-06-17 20:02 ]</font>

 

[jm10mm]

Tom, Mikey is correcxt, the local club must define the muzzle safe points particular to their facility. If there is housing close by it could be a good safety rule. On the other hand it should be posted or high lighted at the shooters meeting.

 

[Tom Freeman]

Mikey, I totally agree and understand. If the local rules specify it, I have no problem with it. Only snag is that it is my range and I am the overall/terminal Match Director for all IPSC and IDPA matches.

An indoor club in Boulder says you can only point the muzzle at the backstop so we don’t shoot holes in the ceiling. Can do and usually I remember. First time they yell, second, you go home.

I know IDPA has a "soft 180" policy, but this just threw me for a loop.

Tom
AF Shooting Team

 

[gyp_c2]

You musta' worn the wrong "shirt" Tom!
I guess you musta' been a "little" tight after that huh? Izzat' from the same group that usually shows on Sundays?
Bummer...:sad:

 

[DblTap]

Tom, it sounds to me like you're bucking for a "failure to do right". :grin:

 

[Tom Freeman]

I haven’t had a FTDR yet. But I am sure my time is coming. When it does, I will rest easy knowing I had already earned it. It just took a while to catch up with me.

Tom
AF Shooting Team

 

[Chad Ward]

Tom -- dunno what to tell you. As others have pointed out, IDPA has no 180 rule per se. There are range-specific muzzle safe points. And I don't see how you can do a reload without elevating the muzzle somewhat. However, on the unload & show clear, I prefer to have the shooter pointing the muzzle downrange at about 45 degrees -- keeps any stray shots in the berm and I can see into the chamber better.

I realize you're an extremely experienced shooter, but this is the spookiest part of the stage for the RO. Way too many things can go wrong, especially with new shooters who seem to think the unload & show clear is on the clock. Hell, just run a hot range. We do. It saves a lot of time and headaches. And I personally think it's a lot safer.

What this incident does point out is the need for consistent, coherent RO training. I'm a "certified" RO, for what that's worth and have RO'ed a couple of state level matches -- and I'm still not sure I know enough to be doing this :smile:.

IDPA HQ has promised a video taped RO instruction course for a while now. I wish they'd get their butts in gear and get it out. Even if it just covered safety basics, range commands and cover requirements we'd be 100% better off than we are now.

As match director, you might want to have your most experienced RO put on an RO briefing before each match to make sure that the calls are at least consistent from stage to stage.

Chad

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Chad Ward on 2001-06-19 12:40 ]</font>

 

[jm10mm]

I thought IDPA had SO's not RO's. They wanted something different. So if it's a IDPA certification it's a Safety Officer.

 

[banjobart]

When a revolver is reloaded Jerry Miculek speed style the muzzle is pointing up to the sky ONLY when the action is open.

How can you get a DQ for a 180 violation with an open action? It would be like giving a DQ for the trip from the parking lot with a cased gun. How can you work on your gun in a safe area without getting a DQ by this SO's rules? One must at times look down the bore at a safe area to see if there is a squib load in the bore. The gun's action is open then or it is even disassembled.

That SO was an odd duck.