I saw this was old but I didn't bring it back, so here's my take.

I carry a 1911, .45acp on duty. My agency mandate says nothing larger off duty. How convenient!!!!!!!!!!

 

9mm - not to start a fight, but I'd be interested in your statement re: "The city made the initial error of permitting fully jacketed 9mm rounds which turned tragic as evidenced in the Diallo shooting".

Just how did the ROUND involved in the shooting influence the actual events necessitating the shooting?
BTW, let's NOT go down the unending terminal ballistics argument. Again - I'm fairly familiar with this situation and use it in many teaching scenarios. I'd be interested in your take on it.

 

JimP:
9mm's post was in 2004. You may not get a response now.

From what I remember NYPD did initially issue FMJs but eventually saw the light? The Diallo shooting if I remember was just simple poor shooting, poor lighting, poor situation, poor tactics??????

I don't recall which rounds were issued at the time but would it have made a difference considering the number of rounds fired at target to number of terminal hits?

 

I use it in teaching as it shows that folks can do everything right and a shooting can still be tragic; a good shoot...but tragic consequences. Pretty interesting study in physiological and psychological reaction to a deadly force encounter.

 

Remembering? He was running into a dark hallway, turned, reached into pocket and pulled object. Too dark too see it was a phone?Wallet? Officers fired?

 

anti-gang unit looking for dark-skinned serial rapist. Spot Diallo and pull up behind him; Diallo runs into building not his; can't get past the vestibule, keeps peeking out; cops approach in supporting positions, lead cop has gun out and down behind him; goes to step up and Diallo turns around with somethin dark in his hand; cop slips on step/falls backwards and canks off round into ground; supporting cops light up Diallo; rounds impacting him and vestibule keep him from going down (poor hit ratio as well); when dust settles, he's clutching wallet.

Tragic shoot but the cops acted reasonably under the circumstances.

The actual round used had no impact upon the decision or the legality of the shoot.

add 'usual suspects and vermin" come out of woodwork and lambaste the cops (Springsteen; Jackson; Sharpton; et al).

 

ball 9mm

Some have said the ball went through and through allowing Diallo to stay on his feet and causing the officers to continue to fire. I don't no how valid that point is, but that's what I heard. If you remember one of the complaints of the ignorant was how many times he was shot.

 

Off duty carry

I will look at this from the position of being a retired Officer. I spent 25 years on the job in Georgia and for the first 19 no agency in our area issued weapons or ammo. I have observed that if the agency doesn't issue weapons they have less control over what is carried. Same goes for ammo. If the city doesn't buy it then they can't require an Officer to use a certain type or caliber. We depended on a sense of common understanding for off duty carry...we never carried unacceptable weapons or ammo. For a long period of time before he got the city to issue guns and ammo the chief carried a S&W M29, 4" with magnum loads. HE also qualified with it which established the procedure that if you want to carry it then you need to be able to qualify with it. Once we went with Beretta 96D Centurions we were issued WW Black Talons. The next year the chief pulled the Berettas due to a lack of trust in them by some officers. He then issued Sig P229s. We were welcome to carry the Sigs off duty, and if we did we had to use the WW loads. If the Officer chose to carry something else then they could. But still they needed to qualify with it. The agency I was with still issues the Sig P229s to this day.

 

aryfrosty, my department is like your old one. When I got hired in 1992, you had to buy a pistol from a list. I got a Glock 22. The department now issues Glock 22C, but you can still carry what you had before if you wish. Off-duty, I carry a Kimber Ultra-carry II in 45 and also have a Keltec 380 for a back-up. I know of a few officers that carry full size 1911's off-duty but this has to be approved.

 

Old thread brought back, but around here, no. Currently, our primary on duty is restricted to Sig only in 40 or 45. If we carry the Dept issue DAK Sig, then the Dept maintains it. If we carry a personal Sig, then we maintain it.

The list for off duty & backup is much more flexible: autoloader rounds are 380 for minimum; revolver rounds are 38 Special minimum, non magnum rounds are good, and 357 Magnum. If we choose something other than 40 S&W or 45ACP, then we buy the (approved) ammo. We maintain our personal pistols. Brand names and approved.

Performance is pretty much related to range time and budgets (Dept or family).... Real life....

 

Where I work the jail deputies are issued Glock 19 or 17 depending on hand size, and Glock 22 or 23 on patrol. We have no restrictions on off duty carry, just that we must qualify with our carry guns and provide our own ammo for the personal weapons.

 

I have a Lew Hortons 3" Bbl. Smith Model 624 .44 Spl, that I have been known to carry as a "Barbeque Gun" (It's purty) But, fully capable with Gold Dot's and a speedloader or two.
Just Say'in
j