Any feedback and opions on putting a match barrel on a Colt LW Commander? My full size custom guns have them and not sure if I'll be disappointed (read spoiled) if my LW Commander doesn't shoot up to par with others. Part of me says that this is a carry gun and match barrel is overkill for intended use. In addition, I don't think I'll want my barrel bushing to be too tight as I'd like to be able to strip it down with my hands with out the need for a bushing tool. If this is the case, is the match barrel a waste with a semi loose bushing? What are the pros and possible gunsmithing cons to this choice -- if any? Thanks.
Match barrels on LW Commanders
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Yes, 2" is fine. Will a factory barrel with a fitted bushing (but not too tight) handle that level of accuracy (I know it depends on gun/load combo too)?
I guess I'm looking for opinion on whether or not to put extra money for a match barrel into a carry gun?
I guess I'm looking for opinion on whether or not to put extra money for a match barrel into a carry gun?
I want my CW to be loose and reliable. I'm not concerned about accuracy at 25 yards or more, since if I ever shot someone at that distance I'd be looking at a long prison term. At 25 yards I should be running away not shooting. I do want my CW gun to be accurate at 10-15 yards, but most stock barrels will do fine at that distance. OTOH, I am concerned with accuracy in my competition and range guns.
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Interesting though process here. I always thought the gun I defend my life with should be the most accurate and reliable that I can build. My LWT Commander has a BarSto in it. A LWT Commander Dick Heinie has been carrying around has a EB Brown match barrel in it.
Yes we both build guns for a living but I want to be able to place a bullet exactly on the human target when the need arises...that might just be a occular window shot at 15 yards, or a body shot in under 1 second at 7 yards. I want to know my carry gun will do both adroitly and with accuracy to spare.
I figure I'll have enough to worry about besides wondering if I my gun can make the shot.
"The only interesting guns are accurate guns"
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dane Burns on 2001-05-10 22:04 ]</font>
Yes we both build guns for a living but I want to be able to place a bullet exactly on the human target when the need arises...that might just be a occular window shot at 15 yards, or a body shot in under 1 second at 7 yards. I want to know my carry gun will do both adroitly and with accuracy to spare.
I figure I'll have enough to worry about besides wondering if I my gun can make the shot.
"The only interesting guns are accurate guns"
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dane Burns on 2001-05-10 22:04 ]</font>
I don't disagree with you at all. Either of my Sigs or Wilsons will make a ocular shot out to 15yds or under an inch at 7. Guess the point I was trying to make was, most quality guns will give you suffcient accuracy out to 25yds, because the avg person can't out shoot the avg quality gun.
Dane, what would your response be to the following argument:
A) A 1911 barrel has to be tightly fitted for maximum accuracy.
B) Tightly fitted parts won't work if foreign matter (dust, mud, carbon, etc.) accumulates in the mechanism.
C) Because of A and B, highly accurate 1911s aren't reliable in adverse conditions.
I suppose you've heard from those who believe that choosing a rattling-loose GI 1911A1 is the only way to be sure your .45 will fire every time. Is there any truth to this?
A) A 1911 barrel has to be tightly fitted for maximum accuracy.
B) Tightly fitted parts won't work if foreign matter (dust, mud, carbon, etc.) accumulates in the mechanism.
C) Because of A and B, highly accurate 1911s aren't reliable in adverse conditions.
I suppose you've heard from those who believe that choosing a rattling-loose GI 1911A1 is the only way to be sure your .45 will fire every time. Is there any truth to this?
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Easy response Matt. An accurate gun need not be overly tight. I had (I gave it to my father in 1989) a gun that would literally rattle from frame to slide fit and shot 1.6" for 9 rounds from a sand bag at 50 YARDS with me pulling the trigger.
The BarSto was indeed fitted well but certainly not tight.
My guns don't rattle, and I prefer to fit the bushing so you need a wrench to disasemble it, but past that, the guns aren't "tight" by some current standards.
They are accurate and are less prone to dirt and malfuntion because of it IMO.
Take a look at the original 1911s (not the A1) built by Colt. The commercial guns were very nice and TIGHT from all the samples I have seen. The tolerences were changed on the A1s and IMO, to the detriment of the guns that followed. The reliability of the 1911 was defined by the original 1911 before and during WWII, which was a finely made firearm that did not rattle nor was it loose. They shot because they were hand fitted to close tolerences.
A relaible gun to me means accurate and works 100%. Nothing more or less. That also means it has to shoot better than I can hold.
What I can hold depends on my level of practice and my eyes. That changes. But one of the last guns I shot for group did 9 rounds into the size of a quarter from 27 measured yards, standing, off hand. That gun went to Kosovo with its present owner.
It was fitted like the original 1911 Colts.
The BarSto was indeed fitted well but certainly not tight.
My guns don't rattle, and I prefer to fit the bushing so you need a wrench to disasemble it, but past that, the guns aren't "tight" by some current standards.
They are accurate and are less prone to dirt and malfuntion because of it IMO.
Take a look at the original 1911s (not the A1) built by Colt. The commercial guns were very nice and TIGHT from all the samples I have seen. The tolerences were changed on the A1s and IMO, to the detriment of the guns that followed. The reliability of the 1911 was defined by the original 1911 before and during WWII, which was a finely made firearm that did not rattle nor was it loose. They shot because they were hand fitted to close tolerences.
A relaible gun to me means accurate and works 100%. Nothing more or less. That also means it has to shoot better than I can hold.
What I can hold depends on my level of practice and my eyes. That changes. But one of the last guns I shot for group did 9 rounds into the size of a quarter from 27 measured yards, standing, off hand. That gun went to Kosovo with its present owner.
It was fitted like the original 1911 Colts.
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No, just unbelieveably lucky that day...but there were whitnesses for these claims :grin:
For what it is worth take a look at the Grey Ghost photos on my web site and see how many times I shoot groups to get a off hand group like I mentioned above. I may shoot dozens of groups from several pistiols in one day. So if I am shooting/testing I can some times get a decent group on demand. But I HAVE to practice a lot (1000 or so a week) to get there and the gun has to be exceptional.
I'm also in the camp that says my carry gun has to be accurate as it can be, while naturally still reliable.
Reason: none of us can guarantee the circumstances we might face nor the certainty of making a perfect shoot school response--threats can come from contact distances to whatever (bad guys are known to use rifles from more than 25 yards). And if I'm alone--most of the time we are--I want to make a good hit on what I shoot. Too many Monday morning quarterbacks on shoots. Why did you miss the BG and hit that innocent bystander...?
Also, strangely enough, all my carry guns have Bomar adjustables. Why: I can't always get my normal ammo and I really really don't like to guess where my shot is going to go with unknown loads. I've never broken a Bomar, though I have crunched a sight blade or two on a rough day. And I've never had one change zero.
And, yes, a LW Commander is generally what I am carrying with the above comments in mind.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: TEXN on 2001-06-22 19:05 ]</font>
Reason: none of us can guarantee the circumstances we might face nor the certainty of making a perfect shoot school response--threats can come from contact distances to whatever (bad guys are known to use rifles from more than 25 yards). And if I'm alone--most of the time we are--I want to make a good hit on what I shoot. Too many Monday morning quarterbacks on shoots. Why did you miss the BG and hit that innocent bystander...?
Also, strangely enough, all my carry guns have Bomar adjustables. Why: I can't always get my normal ammo and I really really don't like to guess where my shot is going to go with unknown loads. I've never broken a Bomar, though I have crunched a sight blade or two on a rough day. And I've never had one change zero.
And, yes, a LW Commander is generally what I am carrying with the above comments in mind.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: TEXN on 2001-06-22 19:05 ]</font>
>>Wow... Nice shooting, Dane!<<
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I usually keep my 9 shot groups into the size of a nickel from 28 measured yards, standing, off hand and in under 9 seconds with full loads....and that's with a Commander.
...and I can name that tune in 1 note.
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I usually keep my 9 shot groups into the size of a nickel from 28 measured yards, standing, off hand and in under 9 seconds with full loads....and that's with a Commander.
...and I can name that tune in 1 note.
I can't understand the logic of loose=reliable. Seems to me that anything mechanical thats fitted up correctly with minimum clearances is going to be more reliable. I know that my new engine with nice tight clearances is a lot more reliable than my old loose one that the pistons would swap holes every once in awhile. I think this thinking comes from improperly tightened pistols that bind and stick not because they're too tight but because they're not fitted properly. I know I own pistols that are extremly well fitted and are accurate and 100% reliable. You just have to have a competent gunsmith. When everythings at stake I want the most accurate and reliable weapon I can get.
JJ
JJ
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