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Discussion Starter #1
Greetings all! I asked that we start this new forum because it is of prime improtance to the mission of the pistol. Whether the mission is self defense, hunting or sport shooting it is the bullet that does the work, the weapon is merely the "bullet launcher" - admittely some launchers are a lot more interesting than others :smile:

Just about anything is game in the discussinons so long as ammo is involved. Ballistics (internal, external and terminal), function (since we are dealing largely with auto-pistols function is important) or things lile acoustic signature (muzzle blast) or muzzle flash.

The one thing I would consider off topic for a public forum is penetration of soft body armor and that in order not to give the anti-gunners fodder for more laws.

While I have been a student of the various aspects of ammunition for many years and was an early member of the International Wound Ballistics Association please don't think that I am the "guru" here. I asked for this forum because I am interested in hearing from all sides on an issue. Truth be known, over the last 35 years or so I have subscribed to just about every theory extant regarding pistol power... at least until field experience beat me into submission.

With that.... let the bullets fly!

Onward and upward!
Jim Higginbotham
 

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Hello Jim,
I guess you won't be interested in me posting questions related to my on- going experiments with hard ceramic plates either:)

Oh, well. I kinda figured I'd be doing my own research work anyways. And I agree wholeheartedly about the anti-gun fascists using it against us. They tend to be an anti-fun bunch. And I've pretty much figured that with the M9 and issue FMJ ammo, everybody's getting Mozambiqued, so soft armour isn't an issue.(for everyone who isn't in on the joke, I'm military and have conversed with Mr Higginbotham on this topic before. In fact I'm probably the immediate cause of that statement due to answering a post on the IDPA list. I seem to amass esoteric information.)

I look forward to interesting discussions.

I carry the 10mm Delta Elite with 175gn Silvertips when I have the option, which isn't often, unfortunately. Semper Fidelis...Ken M


edited for clarity and spelling

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: EchoFiveMike on 2001-04-12 17:59 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: EchoFiveMike on 2001-04-12 18:00 ]</font>
 

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Discussion Starter #4
38 Super Combat Commander wrote;
Jim,What do you think of the 10mm round for self defence.
_________________

Though it is somewhat dependent on which load, since it varies from being a duplicate of the .40 S&W to alsmot a duplicate of the .41 Mag., I figure it is a pretty fair round. I shot a smallish buck with one early on (in fact it was with the very Bren X that appeared on the cover of Guns and Ammo - for which I had to make a magazine) and it worked. I watched Tom G. shoot a medium sized boar with a 180 H.S. and, while it ran a few yards, it was hors-de-combat pretty quick (those things are really fast on their feet!). In both cases it was a good bit more impressive than typical .357 125s or 158s on 150 pound critters (I watched Tom cooly shoot one hog 4 times through the heart with a .357... finally the Lord called the poor thing home :smile: )

As with the .40 most of the bullets that came out since the cartridge did are pretty well designed. I did shoot a ground hog 5 times with the early Win. 10mm 180 Subsonic and they all failed to expand... I don't think the ground hog really cared :smile:

Cordially,
Jim Higginbotham
 

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5 rounds into a groundhog? Boy, I sure hate to get on your bad side Jim. :grin:
 

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Discussion Starter #7
On 2001-04-18 12:40, Mute wrote:
5 rounds into a groundhog? Boy, I sure hate to get on your bad side Jim. :grin:
I guess I sorta get focused on the goal... shoot em until they quit moving :smile:

Investigator: "and just why did you shoot this man 25 times?, officer"

Officer: "That's all the ammunition I had on me at the time sir." :grin:

Carry on,
Jim H.
 

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Investigator: "and just why did you shoot this man 25 times?, officer"

Officer: "That's all the ammunition I had on me at the time sir."

Carry on,
Jim H.
:lol:
 

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Hi Jim: I must admit that up the time i enter this forum, i don't know about you. Don't take it personally, as i am from another country, Argentina, so everything mi knowledge of the real ones comes via magazines and publications (i will post a subjet about it in the off topic forum). Well, for all i read in this forum, you certainly know and can give an authorized opinion about ammo election. Here, we don't have the posibility of carry JHP amunnition, we are limited only to FMJ ammo. Actually, the bann will cause you more administrative problems than penal, and i carry JHP. But you never know, and you can have a real problem in your hands in the most unexpected moment. All that introduction, is only to ask you what do you think about the 357 sig as a carry ammo, especially FMJ. I have to tell you that i like the 357 sig a lot, and i think i shoot pretty well with it (have a Sig 229, Glock 31 and 32), but the same can we said about the 9mm, 40 and 45. Don't think i am a very good shooter, please, but yes an average shooter that take the personal defense seriously, and because of that i am very concerned about overpenetration. And i know overpenetration is a factor when you shoot FMJ. Well, thank in advance.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
On 2001-04-19 09:30, die wrote:
<snippage>

All that introduction, is only to ask you what do you think about the 357 sig as a carry ammo, especially FMJ. I have to tell you that i like the 357 sig a lot, and i think i shoot pretty well with it (have a Sig 229, Glock 31 and 32), but the same can we said about the 9mm, 40 and 45. Don't think i am a very good shooter, please, but yes an average shooter that take the personal defense seriously, and because of that i am very concerned about overpenetration. And i know overpenetration is a factor when you shoot FMJ. Well, thank in advance.
Great to have someone from "across the waters" on the forum for a different perspective.

Basically, I regard the .357 Sig as just another 9mm +P+. The performance of course depends on the construction of the bullet mainly.

Velocity is always a factor but one must remember that its importance varies greatly with bullet design. Several experiments (one reported on by the IWBA) reveal that a steel or bronze sphere had little wounding effect at nearly 5,000 fps (but boy would that sucker pentrate :smile: ).

A .357 Sig that expands to about .60 caliber, and holds together and hits something important (like the spine) should do just fine. The Speer Gold dot seems to hold together well, I don't have any data on other expanding bullets for the Sig but I noticed that someone has a 147 gr. load out. That should penetrate pretty reliably in flesh.

In FMJ I don't figure the Sig, Super .38 or the .38 Casul would differ much in "Wound Trauma Incapacitation" but the higher velocity rounds would likely penetrate metal better.

I just took delivery on a few boxes of Federal Expanding FMJ rounds which should interest those required to shoot FMJ. So far I have not seen any .357 Sig listed but they have just begun.

I have not tested it yet but I will soon.

Vaya con Dios,
Jim Higginbotham
 

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Jim, i thanks to much you for your opinion. Still that type of ammunition did not arrive to mi country, and i also believe they do not produce it either for this caliber.
 
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