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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
New Jersey State Police Department - The New Jersey State Police have chosen the SIG Sauer P228 in 9mm as their new duty weapon. Lawmen's Supply Company of Egg Harbor, New Jersey will provide the P228 under the new contract. Local law enforcement agencies within New Jersey will be able to buy off the existing state police contract through Lawmen's Supply Company.
 

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Thanks for the intel. I find it interesting that they stayed with a nine! Given the options of the .40 and .357. Any information on their duty load?

Thanks,
Rob
 

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The whole NJSP pistol selection is an example of what happens when non-gun people are involved in the purchasing decision. John Farnam has documented the whole debacle at this web site in his "quips" section. My personal favorite decision was to block the S&W magazine as it originally held 16 rounds. The colonel ordered that the mag be modified to only hold 15 rounds. This led to all types of feeding problems and the issuance of a mat to place below the shooter so that magazines wouldn't be damaged in training.

I still don't believe they're sticking to the 9mm. I see few reasons to use 9mm in a full size duty pistol, a concealed gun maybe, but not an openly holstered gun.
 

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The NJSP are indeed sticking with 9mm. The original S&W where spec'd in 9 as are the new Sigs. Perhaps they see no reason to change calibers, many shootings with the P7's, all with excellent results.
 

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As a Police Officer in NJ, I have followed this fiasco for quite some time. The 9mm decision was political. Some of the special interest groups did not wish for the Division to acquire "bigger guns". This situation went beyond "non-gun people". This was due in large part to "non-cop people". In any case, they will be pleased with the reliability of this particular issue weapon, and that is paramount. As for Officers being able to purchase them at contract price, well, get a quote, and you'll find out that you can beat that price almost anywhere.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SNAPCUT on 2001-10-29 10:06 ]</font>
 

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I cannot understand peoples dislike of the 9MM. It was the greatest thing since sliced bread for years. The after the infamous Miami shootout it is the stepchild that noone wants. If I believe all the hype a 9MM is less stopping than a 22 short. I persponally have switched recently from a Glock 23 in 40 caliber to a Sig 228 in 9MM. I fee just as well armed as before.
 

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All this debate about calibers, and guns. Let's face it, a bullet leaves a wound path as the projectile traverses the torso. The .40 caliber is 9% greater radial diameter as well as 30% greater weight. What does this translate into? The .40 caliber has more gyroscopic stability and slightly more blunt trauma. I am sure the .40 can defeat glass and light barriers a bit better. In my estimation, the .40 will not stop criminals any better. It is all shot placement, tactics and luck. There is an optimum construction for a projectile and many calibers have badly constructed rounds in all calibers. Remember, Baby Face Nelson was shot 33 times by FBI Agents in 1934. He killed the two agents with his Thompson SMG (Hollis November 27, 1934 & Cowley November 28, 1934). Lesson to be learned, but well forgotten with the passage of time by the Bureau. Unlike Nelson, Platt wasn't shot 33 times with fully automatic weapons by the FBI either. I feel just as "safe" with my P229 9mm then if the gun was a .40 caliber. The 9mm SIG should serve the NJSP very well.
 

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I think the important question we all need to be asking is obvious....what are they going to do with all those P7's?!?!?!?!?

If anyone gets information as to whats gonna happen to them, please let me know.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I heard that when they changed from H&K to S&W Governor Witman had all guns destroyed for fear of the guns getting into the wrong hands.
On 2001-11-12 16:16, emclain wrote:
I think the important question we all need to be asking is obvious....what are they going to do with all those P7's?!?!?!?!?

If anyone gets information as to whats gonna happen to them, please let me know.
 

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I was in a position recently to be present at a conversation between a high ranking NJSP who was working in procurement and a shooting industry person. The lack of knowledge on the NJSP person's part...regarding the new Sig pistols they were getting...was absolutley amazing. Did not know the correct model number, calling it a Model 28, and had no clue as to fireamrs maintenance. His plan was to have ultrasonic cleaners, dip the handguns into it, and since they were modern guns, did not have to worry about any lubrication of the guns. Some of the troopers are interested in buy their guns, but have been informed that a smelter will be involved.

Kilroy...
...was here
 

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I haven't heard too many good things about the NJSP in general. Not that I think the officers are bad, but with the liberal mindset there, it's understandable. Anyone from NYPD? I understand that you aren't even allowed to take home your duty gun, much less carry one off duty. Will they really arrest their own? We have had a few problems with our officers being arrested in NY for carrying over the years. I'm with the AL state troopers BTW.
 

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I attended the NJSP Municipal Academy way back in 1974 when I was a cop in Jersey. The NJSP is a very good Organization despite their leadership at times. Back when Colonel Pagano ran things it was a very different State poliice than it is now under a politically minded, liberal Colonel. I have been out in the West since 1979 but I'm still in contact with several Troopers , things have certainly changed for them over the years. They are a great group of Officers.

I too was amazed at the spec's for the Smith 99's !! What a mess that whole thing turned into. At least with the SIG's they should be well armed and put the S&W debacle behind them.

Choosing a single service pistol for ALL your Offciers in any Organization is a daunting task. Especially for one with 3000+ members. I just got involved with picking our new pistol about a month ago. Having to take into account your lowest common denominator Officer, large hands, small hands, recoil sensativity, training concerns, holsters, ammo, etc. Its tough to come up with a single do all be all pistol.
We ended up with the SIG system our top pick and HK #2. Have to see how it all shakes out once the State Beancounters get the report.

FN
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
On 2002-01-01 12:20, Frank237 wrote:
I attended the NJSP Municipal Academy way back in 1974 when I was a cop in Jersey. The NJSP is a very good Organization despite their leadership at times. Back when Colonel Pagano ran things it was a very different State poliice than it is now under a politically minded, liberal Colonel. I have been out in the West since 1979 but I'm still in contact with several Troopers , things have certainly changed for them over the years. They are a great group of Officers.

I too was amazed at the spec's for the Smith 99's !! What a mess that whole thing turned into. At least with the SIG's they should be well armed and put the S&W debacle behind them.

Choosing a single service pistol for ALL your Offciers in any Organization is a daunting task. Especially for one with 3000+ members. I just got involved with picking our new pistol about a month ago. Having to take into account your lowest common denominator Officer, large hands, small hands, recoil sensativity, training concerns, holsters, ammo, etc. Its tough to come up with a single do all be all pistol.
We ended up with the SIG system our top pick and HK #2. Have to see how it all shakes out once the State Beancounters get the report.

FN
Frank 237 glad to hear you picked a Sig what model ?
 

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Sean,

We tested Glocks, Beretta Cougars, Smith 99, SIG 226/229, and the HK USP both standard and compact's. We shot both .357 SIG's and .40 S&W chambered models in each model, except the Smith 99 which was provided only in .40 S&W.
After careful deliberation we ended up choosing the SIG 229/226's as #1, and the HK USP , as #2. THE big revelation though was that all the Officers who shot the pistols liked the .357 SIG above the forty!! That was the concensus of opinion so we recommended the SIG's in .357 SIG as our next duty pistol. The accuracy, high velocity, flat trajectory and slick feeding ability of the bottlenecked round won us over. None of the Officers have complained about not getting a .40 S&W , at least yet. If we have a large amount unhappy with the .357 we can always buy barrels in forty for the Troopers who just have to have a forty to feel good.
The SIG's will replace 5903 Smiths that we have carried for about a dozen years now. The nines have served us well the .357 should be even better.
Frank N.
 
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