[Guest]

Believe it or not, I have not had the oppurtuinty to see an IDPA match until recently. My daughter and I have both shot in the GSSF matches for fun and I just did not care for IPSC after it became a true sport, I know, (but teaching to reload on the run failing to duck behind cover and all of the blue/pink/purple fleck guns, 50mm sights, and spring loaded holsters,it's only an opinion)
Anyhow, I am planning to begin anew in IDPA
and I have sent in my registration application. What are the commonalities most people see in the gear, guns, shooting styles, what tips can you pass on?
What are your preffered guns and do you find what you learn while competing over the various courses relevant and worthwhile?

 

[Tom Freeman]

As far as equipment goes, those who are there for the game take it to the limit of the rules. As in high cap 38 Supers for ESP and High Cap 10mm and 45's in CDP. Not too many single stack 45's are winning. The Glocks and Berettas seem to rule SSP with the occasional freak like the Steyr and Sig. SSR the 625 and 610 win.

Locally I see a lot of Glocks and 1911's. I am using a Steyr M-9 in SSP and love it. It beats the hell out of a Glock any day. I ESP I have a STI in 38 Super/TJ. In CDP it’s a STI 45 and SSR it’s a 610 shooting 40 special.

Holster wise, Ky-Tac is King (and my choice)with Blade Tech being Queen. After that its Safariland, and its mostly Uncle Mikes and custom leather past that.

Be warned, IDPA has its little games and gamers also. I have yet to receive a FTDR, but its coming….

I hope you enjoy your new sport. Even though I am a gaming bastard IPSC shooter at heart, I still enjoy IDPA. I just wish there was more shooting at IDPA matches. 60-70 rounds in a match can be a bit ho-hum.

Tom
AF Shooting Team

 

[jfrancis]

There is no value to shooting a Hi-Cap gun in IDPA because the rules restrict the number of rounds that can be loaded (10+1 for ESP and SSP and 8+1 for CDP).

Also, most courses of fire are revolver friendly, further limiting any perceived advantage of additional capacity. I see plenty of single stack .45s winning in CDP as it is by far the dominant gun in that Division.

If you are interested only in getting High Overall awards (which are not usually given anyway) then the 38 Supers and .40 cal 1911s in the ESP Division usually lead the pack. Capacity is not the issue though, it's more the combination of lower recoil and light SA triggers.

 

[Guest]

Tom,
I am interested now in why you prefer the Steyr?

 

[gyp_c2]

I think he's at a multi-service shoot-out this weekend...

:wink:

 

[Howardk]

I can't say why Tom Freeman prefers the Steyr M9 over the Glock, but for me it's no contest. The Steyr is THE gun that Glock should be building.

First, The ergonomics of the Steyr fits my small hands much better than the blocky Glock. The trigger reach is shorter, the trigger guard is deeply undercut allowing for a high hand hold, and the curved backstrap gives a secure grip. The gun points similar to a 1911 (same 11 deg. grip angle). Unlike the Glock, Steyrs shoot lead with the factory barrel. The Steyrs are at least (or more accurate) than Glocks.

The trigger reset on the Steyr is much shorter than the Glock, and the trigger is crisper (that's not saying much given triggers on polymer guns). The bore axis is lower than the Glock and combined with its buffering system the recoil feels more like a hyped-up .22 than a 9mm. I've never shot a softer 9mm.

The Steyr has built-in light rails and metal NOT plastic sights--the front sights are dovetailed. I like the trapezoidal sights. Unlike the Glock, the Steyr has several safeties--the "safe" trigger, a manual safety, a loaded chamber indicator, and an integrated key lock. You can use the Steyr like a Glock or use any or all of the safeties -- none get in the way.

The fit and tenifer finish is every bit as good (if not better) than the Glock. It's a quality gun. If you haven't tried a Steyr in 9mm or .40 you're missing something. This is from a 1911 afficiando.

 

[Pistolero]

Agree with above on the Steyr. An excellent pistol with a great trigger. If you guys are using same for IDPA what Holster{s} are you using? TIA.

 

[Mark4-45]

As an old and disgruntled IPSC shooter[Istarted in 1976] IMHO IDPA is the best thing to happen to practical shooting in decades. Governed by a committe much like a benevolent dictatorship, the mistakes of IPSC will hopefully not rear their ugly heads..The beauty of IDPA is that the average shooter/gun owner can turn out and compete with what ever he's got in the way of a defensive handgun.. There is a class for everyone..The new shooter is not intimidated by guys sporting $3000+ race guns and thus is not discouraged and will probably return to shoot again..

Gun wise, shoot what you want. I've shot SSP with both a Baretta and a Sig,CDP with a 1911 .45, and most recently ESP with a 9mm 1911.

 

[Clay in Mo]

So a person with a stock Browning HP wouldn't be considered the oddball then.

 

[eerw]

Clay

Hi power would be perfect for IDPA or IPSC. The highpower would fit perfectly in ESP class of IDPA and production class of IPSC..

Truthfully I shot a hipower for a year in IPSC and got c-class card shooting minor caliber...so..great gun..just get out and shoot and have fun.

 

[Guest]

I had the oppurtunity to shoot in my first IDPA event on Tuesday, although it was only a qualifier I liked it quite a bit.
I didn't really understand the scoring until afterwards but I managed to shoot a decent score, I think.
I will be returning to competition after all, IMO the IDPA reminded me that it truly is a shame what IPSC has become.

 

[jm10mm]

Dave, You should have called me. The match you shot Is not IDPA although they think it is. We shoot alot of IDPA and when we shoot that match we are confused 3 out of 4 times on how the scoring works. The classifier you just shot is not a valid one . The targets were only 6" apart and were different heights on both sides of the range. I've gone to their shoots since they started. They have charged people 30 points for missing a target,given FTN because you had less than 10 points on a limited vickers target with 2 shots on it. They have you shoot a target 4 times but only count 2 shots. So on and so on.
The problem is that the people running the matches never shoot any IDPA matches other than their own so they don't really know what its all about. We've tried to help but they don't want to listen. To them its all about the money not the sport and socializing. On two occasions I drove over an hour to shoot a match with a round count of 12 and 19. The twelve round match was 3 stages.One guy even shot the 12 round match without a reload (no proceedural ao FTR).
Don't judge IDPA by those matches, try some real events call me and I'll give you a list of clubs that run decent matches.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: jm10mm on 2001-05-16 22:30 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: jm10mm on 2001-05-17 14:11 ]</font>

 

[Tom Freeman]

On 2001-05-16 19:38, David DiFabio wrote:
I will be returning to competition after all, IMO the IDPA reminded me that it truly is a shame what IPSC has become.

Please explain. A low tech game evolved into an expensive game. No IPSC shooter thinks or represents IPSC as anything other than a game. Sure it’s shooting, but not "Tactical." IDPA is a game, only we have fooled ourselves into thinking it is not. Those who think they are ready for a gunfight because they shoot IDPA are in for a rude awakening if it ever happens.

I think that IPSC has been very beneficial to the firearm community. Look at the technology that has come from the IPSC arms race.

And, yes. I do shoot both. If its shooting, I will play. I just have a different mindset when I shoot IDPA.

Tom
AF Shooting Team

 

[TaxPhd]

eerw,

I don't think that a Hi-Power will work for IPSC production class. Doesn't production class require either a double action or Glock "safe action" trigger?

 

[Scooter]

IDPA is still a game. The second that the timer goes off and someone keeping score, it's a game, just different rules.

Many IDPA shooter think that IPSC is evil, it's not practical, etc. However, IPSC is great practice for IDPA. IPSC stages tend to be much tougher to shoot than IDPA stages. Most of the top shooters in IDPA also shoot IPSC.

My personal opinion is that any shooting competition is good training. Whether it is IPSC, IDPA, Steel Challenge, Bullseye, skeet, trap, or high power rifle, they will all improve your shooting. After all, they all boil down to two things, sight picture and trigger control. Who cares if you don't place well in IPSC, as long as you are shooting, you will be improving.

 

[Guest]

I understand the rationale and reasons behind IPSC and cetainly any shooting done with good form and safety is good practice.
But I must take exception and tell it like I see it, function/form/accuracy and proper use of tactical awareness should always take precedence over speed, I will admit to seeing an awful lot of piss poor accuracy and shooters more concerned with speed/times than shot placment at the local IDPA match on Tuesday even though it was only a qualifier.
I traveled over 45 minutes recently to attend a local IPSC match here in PA and I was amazed at the number of spring loaded holsters, optical sights, neon frames, multi port compensators, 2lbs triggers, extended levers, and welded up 30 rd extended magazines on the pistols in catchy bright anodized colors.
With two exceptions not one of the shooters displayed any tactical awareness at all. I almost laughed out loud when I saw the number of extended magazines protruding five inches off of the body with 3" weighted plates on them, not one shooter wore a concealing garment and only three shooters wore any type of concealment or retention holster. I was even "impressed" with the stages that required shooting at 100 yards. (I don't know the laws where you live but even an on duty Police Officer shooting at 100 yards in PA is going to have a lot of explaining to do and the armed citizen that decides to engage at 100 yards or more is going to need a very skilled defense attorney assuming they survive). It is only my opinion and if you like the style of IPSC I saw and the "free style" shooting matches with 60 rounds per stage appeal to you, then more power to you.
If on the other hand your club runs IPSC matches that pay attention to things like cover, reloading behind cover, never reloading on the move, shooting while actually behind the barricade, never leaving cover with an empty gun, and shot placement.
Then, I mean you no disrespect and I am glad to know that you are furthering the shooting sports.

_________________
Think, Plan, Train, Be Safe.
Thanks,
David



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: David DiFabio on 2001-05-19 10:50 ]</font>

 

[Scooter]

Even though IDPA requires the use of tactical skills, the downside is that it is still a game. You have to decide whether you want to shoot the stages tactically or do you want to shoot it fast for a good score. Generally most try to shoot for a good score because it sucks being at the bottom. If you decide to take up IDPA to learn defensive tactics, it is a bad choice. IDPA is where you can apply tactics, not learn them.

The only time where IDPA stages become more tactical is when you start using shoot houses, or setting up walls to prevent someone from seeing the layout of the stage before hand. If you see the stage prior to shooting it, immediately you start formulating a game plan like in IPSC. I personally enjoy shooting the shoot house style stages because you don't know what to expect once you step through the door. However, logistically they are a nightmare to deal with. You have to keep the number of people setting up the course to a minimum. You can only allow people that have shot the stage to go in to tape targets and pick up brass. It takes a long time to run through the first couple of shooters before you have enough people to reset the stage. That's why most clubs tend not to do those stages despite they reflect real life situation.

Some of IDPA rules don't make any sense at all even tactically. Like if kneal behind a barrier, you must have at least one knee on the ground because if you squat you are gaming it. Putting one knee down just makes it harder to move. Another stupid rule is with the no-shoots. If you shoot a no-shoot and that round also passes through a target behind it, you are scored for the target and penalized for the no-shoot. However, if you shoot a target and that round passes through a no-shoot, you are not penalize for the no-shoot. IPSC scores it the opposite way. Either way does not make sense.

Even though IDPA is designed to reflect more real world situations and requires you to be more accurate. You can often point shoot most of the stages and still get 90% A's. Many new shooters do end up point shooting and not using their sights. It's a bad habit that many pick up. If you can, try shooting steel challenge matches. Although there are no tactical skills what so ever, it truely tests your shooting skills in accuracy and speed and it provides instant feedback if you miss unlike paper targets.

 

[Guest]

Are their steel challenge matches in the PA area?

 

[Tom Freeman]

David, I too have to travel at least an hour to the nearest IPSC and IDPA matches. Most matches are 1.5 hours from here.

But, I expect different things from IPSC than I do from IDPA. At an IPSC match I expect people to shoot as fast as they can. And gain every advantage they can to score the most points in the shortest time.

At an IDPA match, I expect people to use cover and be somewhat tactical.

Using cover and being tactical has never been part of IPSC. You should know that if the targets aren’t shooting back, it’s a game.

If you can find an IPSC club that does stress cover and concealment, it’s not an IPSC club. Just try to slap me with a cover penalty at an IPSC match and I will have your nuts. At an IDPA match however...

I don't know of any steel matches in PA, but try http://www.uspsa.org and use the club finder to look for clubs near you.


Tom
AF Shooting Team


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Tom Freeman on 2001-05-23 18:57 ]</font>

 

[Scooter]

I guess some of us have it lucky, there are 6 ranges within 1 hr drive of Sacramento. There are 3 IDPA matches, 1 steel match, and too many IPSC matches each month. Essentially every weekend you have to decide what you want to shoot on Saturday and Sunday.

I think you might be able to find bowling pin shooting on the east coast. It's just as fun as shooting steel.