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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well it happen to me for the first time today, I had a KB while shooting my G23. I will describe the incident below and welcome any an all comments:

G-23, with about 10,000 rounds through it
Factory Connector
Factory Recoil assembley
10 Round Magazine

Here is the rough part, I was shooting a re-load from a company I have been buying from for a while. They are at all of the gun shows in the area. The case was a Federal, with a normally seated primer. The firing pin made good contact with the primer.

The bottom part of the case, in the un-supported part of the barrel blew out 3/16" long by 3/32" wide, just about the unsupported area. When I fired the gun, I felt the gas hitting my hand and the magazine blew out about 2", I think my hand kept it from coming out all of the way. The slide cycled back and jamed open about 1/2".

One of the RO's looked at the gun and he said it appeared to be OK, he works on the guns for the local SO. The rails looked good, the slide looked OK, no signs of metal damage and the slide cycles fine. No obstructions in the barrel. I have always shot jacketed bullets, and the gun is thoroughly cleaned afer each session.

Another RO said it could have fired out of battery, can this happen on a Glock? Firing with the slide not closed all of the way? I would think that if this happened, the primer contact would have been light? Are ther any other checks I should do?

Thanks for any comments. BTW this shook me up, no more reloads for me, it is not worth it.

77Bronc
 

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I understand 40 caliber glocks have a large chamber,maybe the brass had reloaded too many times or possibly a weak recoil spring helped it fire out of battery.I might be inclined to send it back to glock or find a glock armorer in your area,best of luck
 

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Bronco 77,
My department issued Federal ammo in our issued Glock 22s (after initially using the only available .40, Winchester's original loading). We began experiencing case ruptures with this duty JHP. It appears the case walls on Federals initial .40 brass were too thin. Federal did replace our guns involved, and re-imburse the ammo in the questionable lot numbers, but never did any sort of recall to my knowledge; so I'm sure this brass is still kicking around out there. Check the casing headstamp if you still have it. If it's stamped "FC", notify your reloader to avoid it. If it spells out the word "FEDERAL", they assure this is ungraded brass. Federal initially insisted this was a Glock-only problem due to the steep feed ramp and unsupported chamber; but in my efforts to shoot up some of this remaining ammo that we failed to ship back, I had some ka-booms in a USP as well.
Anyway, avoid any Federal .40 casing with "FC" headstamp. If anyone wants further particulars, e-mail me at :[email protected]
(BTW, I now issue Speer Gold-Dot .40, which has proved flawless).
Safe shooting,
Mark Garrity
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Mark,

Yes, the brass has "FC" on the head. This is interesting. My gun looks fine. I used a magnifying glass and looked at all of the surfaces and detailed stripped the gun and looked at each part. I am going to Zy-Glo the slide and barrel next week to see if there are any indications. I feel the case rupture was not as bad as it could have been. Thanks for the help, let me know if I can return the help.

77Bronc
 

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77Bronco,
We had about 6 pistols affected if memory serves me (this was in 1995). On 4 of the guns, the extractors were blown from the slide and the extractor spring and plunger went sailing downrange to whereabouts unknown. These were easily replaced and the guns were functional. They were taken out of service and new pistols issued to the officers involved, but these guns are still in our armoury for use as training pistols.
One of the other guns suffered a crack in the frame, running from behind the left rear slide rail to the trigger mechanism housing pin-hole. The worst one received this same frame crack, and a cracked slide; from the lower rear of the ejection port straight down. These two pistols were (reluctantly) replaced by Federal. Fortunately, aside from the initial shock and some stinging to the hand; no officers were injured in these range mishaps.
As stated in my previous post, I was very dis-satisfied with Federal's nonchalant handling of these incidents. This was factory JHP ammo carried on the street! This is why I insist on shooting what you carry and not using different ammo for training!
A few months after these range mishaps, one of our officers was involved in a shoot-out when he suprised three armed robbers. He took a .38 Special hit in his vest just above the nipple, returned fire, survived and won the encounter. I would hate to think of the outcome if I had been using "training" ammo for qualifications and issuing something different for street carry, and he had a ka-boom in the middle of this incident!
Hope this helps,
Mark Garrity
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Update on Problem at the Range with my G23:

Went back today, after complete inspection of the G23. Used WW 185 Grain BEB and shot about 150 rounds, not one problem. The pistol is still dead on. I will not shoot reloads (unless I reload myself) again in any of my pistols.

77Bronc
 

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Had a Glock 23; after reading about a SERIOUS kB! on the net (the frame blew apart and a Hand-All was about the only thing that saved the shooter's hand) and recurring misfires due to an uncured striker problem, I dumped the gun.

The ammo in that net incident was also a factory Federal defense load; I understand that Federal beefed up the web area after such incidents.

The real problem is the unsupported chamber, a common defect in wonder-nines pumped up to .40 (Glock and SIG, for example; USP's also). I shoot reloaded "FC" brass in my P16-40 often without any incident, but Para's have fully-supported chambers and steel frames. I'm rather fond of my hands - attached to them, if you will..........
 

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Dane Burns told me that Glocks can fire out of battery, and with unsupposrted chambers, tend to go Ka-Boom. I have never seen this, except when one fool a few years back fired not one, but THREE 9mm's through his Model 23 one day... The thing is, they fed, fired, and then extracted and ejected wihtout jamming! Really weird.

Anyway - I haven't seen them KB yet, but I only know one person who shoots reloads through his Glock 9's and 40's, and he is very meticulous about his loads.

All of our agnecy folks are required to shoot duty ammo for practice and qualification.

Keep me posted -
 

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Chris,
Keep in mind, our departments incidents I related were with fresh Federal JHP factory duty ammo, which is why they were especially scary. We have switched to Speer Gold Dot .40 and have experienced no further problems.
Safe shooting,
Mark Garrity

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mark Garrity on 2001-10-06 07:48 ]</font>
 

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I am trying to remember the exact time, but probably about 3 years ago. A friend and I had both purchased glock 27's and then ordered some federal hydra shok 155 grain from Gil Hebard. My friend was shooting his glock 27 beside me and had a case failure. The mag went out the bottom and my friend's hand stung, but he was not injured. We later found out this ammo was rather old stock, which was strange for Hebard, but time frame of manufacture was probably around 1995. I can't remember headstamp. Friend send glock 27 back to factory and it checked out Ok. Found out about problem with this "lot" of federal ammo and Hebard gave us exchange of 50 round box of federal classic for each 20 round box of hydra shok. Prior to this I had a reloaded case let go in glock 30. I have to admit it was case probably reloaded many times, as I never paid much attention with 1911 or Sig - I always got case splits along body with old cases, never failure at base. Anyhow, this old reloaded case let go where chamber unsupported and blew mag out bottom. I was not hurt. So I have personal experience with two incidents of case failures in glocks: one with 40 cal factory and one with 45 reload. My bottom line is never to use reloads in a glock. While I like and carry a glock 27 I believe the 40 is the worst offender in regard to case failures and like other poster want to be sure of ammo I carry for protection.
 

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Yes, Glock will fire out of Battery, Try this,
with the weapon unloaded and no magazine, bring the slide back to were it unlocks with the barrel, then pull the trigger, it will fire (firing out of battery) Glocks are known for this.
 

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Gee, ernie, I just tried it and the striker did not fall. Even if it had, the barrel drops far enough in unlocking to take the point of the firing pin off the primer. So how will it **fire** out of battery? It did not drop the striker with the barrel only half way down toward unlocking, either. Of course, MY Glock is a 17. The one made to Austrian mil-spec, not a .40 cranked out in a hurry to meet low bids on the latest fad caliber to cheap PDs.
 

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I just tried it with my G23 and if you pull the slide back slightly it will let the striker fall.

I have never had a case fail in the Glock, but it is new and only have 300rds through it. I have had case failures in my HK USP 40 and the camber is fully supported. The cases were reloads and they ejected and when I picked them up the were split along the whole side. No KB, but the USP was designed as a 40 and the Glock was not.
 

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77Bronc:

Had same experience with new (non reloaded)Federal "FC" Hydra Shok in my son's G-27 about three weeks ago. Sent it to Glock with the casings, and they confirmed that it was defective ammo.

We are getting a NIB G-27 out of the deal. The moral is just like the previous poster stated:
NEVER shoot Federal ammo with the "FC" headstamp.

Federal never issued a recall (which is enough reason for me to avoid their products altogether), so there are quite a few boxes of this stuff floating around at gunshows - the unscrupulous selling to the unwitting.

As you should also know, it's very risky to shoot reloads in any pistol. You can buy Blazer factory ammo in .40 caliber for $6.60/box, and can get 9mm for around $4.80/box, from Natchex Shooters Supplies. Why fool with reloads ?????

Dawg23
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Dawg,

Thanks again for the comments. I do not shoot reloads in my Glock(s) at all. And yes there is some ammo (new) out there that is cheap enough to shoot w/o reloading.

I have seen some more "FC" cases at the range that some of my friends had with them, we culled these and destroyed.

I am surprised that Glock is givig you another 27, that is great.

77Bronc
 

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as far as I know there is a ton of ammo out there with the FC headstamp, some is Hydrashok some is not. I have in my ammo bin brass from my last trip to the range, all 40S&W brass, all federal, all once fired, and all from the type of ammo though different lots, there is some Federal stamped and some FC stamped. I have never had a problem with the Federal 40 stuff, but had a 2 minute hangfire with some .22 LR that they reimbursed me for a couple of years ago.

rob
 

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NOW YOU HAVE DONE IT. REPLACE YOUR BARRELL WITH A JARVIS, IT WILL SHOOT RELOADS AND MATCH AMMO ALIKE. THE CHAMBER IN GLOCK .40 DO NOT FULLY SUPPORT THE CASE, THEREFORE, KB. I PURCHASED JARVIS APPROX. 8,000 RNDS AGO, AND NO PROBLEMS.
 

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Will the Glock fire out of battery?--yes. But so will all other semi autos and the new gen Glock is less unlocked than any of my 7 1911s. Problem with the Glock 40S&W is the unsupported chamber over the feed ramp and questionable brass or pressures over SAAMI specs. If your going to shoot reloads, like I do, get an after market barrel.
 
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