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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Can someone out there give me detailed instructions on a proper draw stroke from concealment for a 1911 drawn from concealment using an IWB holster.
Specifically I am looking to find out:
When should the finger touch the trigger, when should the safety be deactivated, when do the hands come together, does the off hand pull the covering garment way up high or make a ball over the chest? I have a prett good write up on this in the "Modern Technique of the Pistol". But, I am looking for additional information. If anyone wouldn't mind taking the time to bring me up to speed on this I sure would appreciate it. Thank you. Jake
 

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This is how I practiced doing it:

1. If covering garment is an open shirt or jacket, strong hand moves, or throws the garmet behind you, exposing the gun. If covering garment is a t-shirt or sweater, I use my off hand, to grab a fistfull of the garment on my strong side, pulling upward, thus exposing the gun. This is called the "Hackathorn Rip".
2. Off hand is now in front of the body, waiting for the gun to be drawn. It meets the strong hand (with gun) for support).
3. Finger OFF trigger, thumb safety ON, until target is acquired and ready to fire.
 

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The way I do it is a compilation of a couple of different methods -- primarily influenced by the excellent instruction of Steve Silverman of Firearms Research & Instruction (www.f-r-i.com).

By the numbers:
  1. Sweep: Strong hand, palm upward & cupped slightly, slides cover garment to the rear with the fingertips (it helps to have a little weight in your strong-side pocket to assist the swing of the garment)[/*:m:fslibxq2]
  2. Grip: Strong hand attains firm, high firing grip on the pistol in the holster; weak hand is placed palm down on the solar plexus (or in high front-block position if necessary in a retention situation)[/*:m:fslibxq2]
  3. Rock & Lock: Pistol is tugged straight up until it just clears the holster (don't lean forward, although you'll be tempted to. It'll slow you down). The strong-side elbow rocks down and locks the strong-side wrist against the pectoral muscle. This intermediate high-tuck position allows you to shoot from retention immediately, if necessary. With practice you can get solid upper thoracic hits out to 10-12 yards. The thumb safety comes off as the elbow rocks into position.[/*:m:fslibxq2]
  4. Clasp: Support hand slides across the chest to meet the strong hand. This keeps your support hand behind the muzzle at all times.[/*:m:fslibxq2]
  5. Punch: The hands, with a standard two-handed grip on the pistol, are punched straight out (and slightly up) into firing position. Again, with practice - and if you get into the habit of indexing your wrist in the same spot each time - your gun will come up on target and with the sights in alignment.[/*:m:fslibxq2]

I've been working with this method for a couple of years now. With a lot of practice, I've gotten to the point where I can pick a target, close my eyes and draw, and my sights will be nearly dead on and in perfect alignment.

Finger stays OUT of the trigger guard until the sights are aligned and on the target.

Chad

edited for spelling and hubris :smile:

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Chad Ward on 2001-06-15 14:48 ]</font>
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Very good description, easy to visualize and follow. I'll try it out. Any other takers on this topic? I want to get the best draw stroke I can BEFORE I do it a bazillion times in an attempt to commit it to muscle memory. Thank you gentlemen (and ladies).
Jake
 

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Chad has a very good list of all the steps. An old trick is to carry a weighted object say a roll of pennies in the strong side pocket if there is one. Helps with the swing. And practice, practice, practice in the clothing you wear. Oh, and then there is the reload. Good luck. Calthrop.
P.S. When that support hand contacts the stock get it in there to completely encircle the grip.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: calthrop on 2001-06-15 23:00 ]</font>
 

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Anyone else want to comment? I realize that my way is the one true way and other methods are only practiced by heathen infidels who think Isocoles was a Greek philosopher and Weaver is that guy who played McCloud :smile:.

In all seriousness, there are several methods of drawstroke taught by reputable instructors. Many skip the "rock & lock" retention step. Anyone else care to outline his or her stroke?

Chad

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Chad Ward on 2001-06-22 15:52 ]</font>
 

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Excellent description of the draw stroke Chad. While I understand and abide by Rule #3, there are exceptions to the finger on the trigger. Shooting from retention is one of them. You do not have your sights on the target when you engage the trigger and fire. Also, if you are pushing your pistol towards the target in the last stage of the drawstroke, I believe you can engage the trigger and prep it while bringing the sights into view. While this takes practice and trigger control, it is the method used by many shooters I know.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Chad, it would seem you are the "hombre" of this post. You may now walk tall and fear no man. Thanks for the good post. I just got home about 5 minutes ago from picking up my thunder ranch special. I bought .38 super combat commander's rosen ARG holster so now, with a triple checked empty gun, a snap cap in place, a damn nice gun (never had a malfunction, not even one.... oh yeah, I haven't shot it yet) and a good holster, I can begin practicing what you have posted for us. Thank you again. Jake
 

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On 2001-06-22 19:50, CitrusDude wrote:
Excellent description of the draw stroke Chad. While I understand and abide by Rule #3, there are exceptions to the finger on the trigger. Shooting from retention is one of them. You do not have your sights on the target when you engage the trigger and fire. Also, if you are pushing your pistol towards the target in the last stage of the drawstroke, I believe you can engage the trigger and prep it while bringing the sights into view. While this takes practice and trigger control, it is the method used by many shooters I know.
Yup, I do both of these things. But it takes some additional practice in addition to the basic stroke steps.

The retention shooting position is best practiced in front of a mirror -- you can check that your muzzle is pointing at the upper chest and determine your best index point on the pectoral. As a matter o' fact, it's probably best to work just on drawing to retention for a while. That way you'll ensure that you're drawing to your fixed index point every time before moving on to the full drawstroke.

Trigger prep is a touchy subject for some. I do it as the gun is coming out from retention. By the time the sights are aligned all slack is gone. Of course I learned the hard way that it is extremely important to re-learn your trigger after a trigger job :roll:. My gunsmith returned my BHP.40 to me at an IDPA match, so I shot the gun in the match. Surprised myself a couple of times :eek:.

Chad
 

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Suggested reading: No Second Place Winner, Jordan.

Remember, moving or pulling up clothing with non gun hand is fine, IF THE HAND IS AVAILABLE!!! And if all of your practice when wearing a sweater or sweat shirt is of that type, what are you going to do when that arm is busy defending your body? From a knife? Impact weapon? Or arm broken or shot???

I carry strongside, right or left, and sweep or pull the cover garment clear of the firearm with gun hand. The motion is a circular one. Speed is not important, surprise and accuracy with the first shot is important.

The draw can only be perfected by proper practice, repeated thousands of times. GLV
 

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On 2001-06-23 22:49, GLV wrote:
The draw can only be perfected by proper practice, repeated thousands of times. GLV
Yup -- it takes about 3000 repetitions to really get the stroke smooth and reflexive. However with a "by the numbers" type of drawstroke you can double your reps by repeating the steps backwards as you reholster. So rather than just stick the gun back in the leather, do the drawstroke steps in reverse. Pretty good way to maximize your practice time.

Chad
 

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On 2001-06-22 20:33, Jake Salyards wrote:
Chad, it would seem you are the "hombre" of this post. You may now walk tall and fear no man.
Cool! I've always wanted to be tall :smile:.

Thanks for the good post. I just got home about 5 minutes ago from picking up my thunder ranch special. I bought .38 super combat commander's rosen ARG holster so now, with a triple checked empty gun, a snap cap in place, a damn nice gun (never had a malfunction, not even one.... oh yeah, I haven't shot it yet) and a good holster, I can begin practicing what you have posted for us. Thank you again. Jake
Jake, congrats on the TRS -- it's a hell of a pistol.

As a corollary, I do like the drawstroke I've described. I've used it for several years. However, it's a tad slower than some others because of the high-tuck retention position (which I think is more than balanced by being able to shoot sooner). Read everything you can on the subject, try out various types of drawstrokes and see what works for you. The Gunsite "Tactical Pistol 1" video has a pretty good demo of the way they teach it. Might be worth investing in.

Take care,
Chad

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Chad Ward on 2001-06-24 11:32 ]</font>
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Chad, actually I am not worried about the fastest draw I can achieve, rather I am worried about the best draw I can achieve. The speed will come with time, but I want it tactically sound and as safe as is possible to start with. I just didn't want to start practicing the wrong thing. That's worse than knowing nothing. Unlearning bad stuff is much harder than just learning the new good stuff.

Thanks, Jake

_________________
A bad attitude or unsettled mind will destroy focus, guaranteeing failure regardless of training and preparation.
- Mark F. Twight, "Extreme Alpinism"

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jake Salyards on 2001-06-24 12:46 ]</font>
 
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