[Guest]

What is the difference between Clark/Para & Wilson/Nowlin?

I have a springfiled 1911 and would like to have a new barsto barrel fitted. Thanks for any input.

Joe

 

[Mute]

The profiles of the bottom lugs are different between the two. I have a SA Champion which has the ramped barrel. I believe that Springfield uses the Wilson/Nowlin profile.

I could be talking out my @$$, in which case I'm sure I will be corrected. :wink:

 

[Will Fennell]

The last Springfield I had that came with a ramped barrel had the Wilson-cut. I assume its still the same. I've had pistols with both style ramped barrel cuts and could not tell any advantage of one over the other functionally.

 

[Desert Dog]

Here is some relevant info courtesy of Schuemann Barrels. BTW, there is a lot of interesting information on that site if you look around some. Of particular note (to me), was the section on timing.

Ramped and Unramped barrels.

Both ramped and unramped AET barrels will be offered. A short history of ramped barrels is appropriate. When the 38 Super was first introduced into IPSC shooting, the barrels used were unramped which, combined with loading inexperience, caused cartridge case walls to occasionally fail because of the combination of high case pressure and insufficient case wall support. This led to Bar-Sto introducing a ramped barrel with Bar-Sto designed lower lugs. The Bar-Sto lower lugs were weak and failures led to the development of what we now call the Wilson/Nowlin lower lugs. This was a stronger design. About the same time Clark developed what appeared to be an even stronger lower lug design which ParaOrdnance incorporated into the ParaOrdance pistol design.

For a number of years barrels with the Wilson/Nowlin lower lug design outsold the Clark/ParaOrd lower lug design by two to one.

The Wilson/Nowlin design had less load carrying metal but a nice radius at the maximum stress point to reduce the stress concentration at that maximum stress point. The Clark/ParaOrd lower lugs had more load carrying metal but no radius at the critical maximum stress point to reduce the stress concentration there.

The actual strength of the two designed appeared equal because both the Wilson/Nowlin and the Clark/ParaOrd lower lug designs experienced a lower lug breakage rate of 1% to 2% per year, mostly because some gunsmiths haven't learn to properly time a 1911, and partly because the timing of a 1911 can change as it wears.

Lissner, a barrel maker in Australia, modified the Clark/ParaOrd design to include a radius at the critical maximum stress point. We introduced the Lissner modification into our Clark/ParaOrd ramped barrels in about 1997. Since that time there has not been a single Clark/ParaOrd/Lissner ramped barrel returned to us because of a broken lower lug while the slow steady stream of broken Wilson/Nowlin lugged barrels continues. I won't claim that the Clark/ParaOrd/Lissner ramp can never fail, but it is obviously stronger, and therefore inherently more forgiving of sloppy gunsmithing, than the Wilson/Nowlin ramp design.

It is easy to convert a Wilson/Nowlin ramped gun to use barrels with the Clark/ParaOrd/Lissner lower lugs. The conversion does not compromise the strength of the gun. Most gunsmiths eventually conclude that the Clark/ParaOrd/Lissner ramp is easier to install than the Wilson/Nowlin ramp. Our production, which used to be 2 to 1 in favor of Wilson/Nowlin lugged barrels three years ago has gradually changed to be 2 to 1 in favor of Clark/ParaOrd/Lissner lugged barrels today.

The growing popularity of the Clark/ParaOrd/Lissner lower lugs combined with the relative weakness of the Wilson/Nowlin lower lugs, combined with the fact that existing guns equipped with the Wilson/Nowlin ramp can be easily converted to the Clark/ParaOrd/Lissner ramp convinced us to offer the AET barrels only with Clark/ParaOrd/Lissner lower lugs, and in the unramped configuration where appropriate. The standard line of Schuemann barrels will continue to include Wilson/Nowlin lower lugs, Clark/ParaOrd/Lissner lower lugs, and unramped lower lugs, as it always has.

DD


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Desert Dog on 2001-04-03 22:20 ]</font>

 

[John Lawson]

There is a third (and IMHO superior) style of cut for ramped barrels called the "Lissner." Not many gunsmiths are familiar with it, because the Lissner barrels, being the best in the world, are commensurately more expensive, like over $300 for the basic barrel. The cuts can be accomplished with standard size end mills.
One brand iof US ramped barrel warns that you will need a smaller pilot. I fitted one for my Gold Cup, and found that the bore was "jugged", that is, after the first few cuts, the bore became standard size and required a larger pilot to guide the reamer properly.(Thank heaven for Clymer reamers and replaceable pilots.) The muzzle end is also jugged. Despite this, I have done my very best shooting with this pistol/barrel combination.
The Lissner barrels I have (which I have not yet finished mounting in frames) are superbly made by the old method of rifling, and the bore looks more like jewelry than part of a firearm. I can hardly wait to get some Universal Clays behind Rainier bullets through them.