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Who makes the BEST of the semi-custom 1911s in terms of price vs. what you get?
Semi-custom guns
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Probably Baer if you say value for what you get, but there are better (and worse) out there.
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Valtro? Really? Any one on the list have one and shooting it?
How much trigger time do you have with the Valtro RML? That is a pretty bold statement considering the quality of many of the semi custom guns out there. Are the Valtros currently out there an actual representation of the production guns or heavily breathed on prototypes?
G
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·Les Baer definitely makes the best production gun going.
I am also interested in the Valtro when they become available for sale/order as I belive they will be a good competitor to the Springfield TRP and the Kimber Master grade series.
Matt,
I am really suprised you have a Valtro as according to ATF it is almost nonexistent.
Well, being the first on the block is a good feeling, post us some pics and info.
I am also interested in the Valtro when they become available for sale/order as I belive they will be a good competitor to the Springfield TRP and the Kimber Master grade series.
Matt,
I am really suprised you have a Valtro as according to ATF it is almost nonexistent.
Well, being the first on the block is a good feeling, post us some pics and info.
Not much trigger time, about 150 rounds shot through a freinds, he has 1000+ rounds through it....not a hiccup as to date. I dont currently own one, but will as soon as i save enough moo lah. Granted shooting 1 pistol doesnt support much of a basis for such a "bold" statement, however, if its any indication of things to come i feel quite confident in my bravado :grin:
For UNDER 1200 you get a gun that is not RUSHED into the box to be shipped.
*No junk parts (MIM, plastic etc.)
*Forged 4140 frame, Forged/Extruded 4140 slide, Machined after heat treat.
*Tool steel hammer/sear/disconector/strut
*30 lpi front strap (machine cut, nice)
*Final set up/inspection done by a "real" pistolsmith, not a clockwatcher.
The one i saw/shot was very well finished, as good as any other "semi" production gun if not better. There are a few critisicms i have-
The lettering is TOO LARGE
NO sight options (yet)*novak cut would be nice, giving 3 major options*
NO finish options (yet) **I would personally like to see a "service" grade with matte black oxide**
NO single sided safety (although the AMBI is machined from a bar stock block)
Very limited availability at this point.
I will add that this is a very well thought out pistol, and very well done.
Dane, MPOWER, lets hear what your choice would be and why???
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RMLamey on 2001-07-06 09:30 ]</font>
For UNDER 1200 you get a gun that is not RUSHED into the box to be shipped.
*No junk parts (MIM, plastic etc.)
*Forged 4140 frame, Forged/Extruded 4140 slide, Machined after heat treat.
*Tool steel hammer/sear/disconector/strut
*30 lpi front strap (machine cut, nice)
*Final set up/inspection done by a "real" pistolsmith, not a clockwatcher.
The one i saw/shot was very well finished, as good as any other "semi" production gun if not better. There are a few critisicms i have-
The lettering is TOO LARGE
NO sight options (yet)*novak cut would be nice, giving 3 major options*
NO finish options (yet) **I would personally like to see a "service" grade with matte black oxide**
NO single sided safety (although the AMBI is machined from a bar stock block)
Very limited availability at this point.
I will add that this is a very well thought out pistol, and very well done.
Dane, MPOWER, lets hear what your choice would be and why???
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RMLamey on 2001-07-06 09:30 ]</font>
The Valtro 1911's sold prior to a couple weeks ago were heavily breathed on. May still be. This is good for the customer who has them.
The one guy I know who has shot several, has shot them hard. It was his opinion that the pistol he tested finally was as good as you can get for the money.
It will be interesting to see what happens to the quality when sales start to out-strip what a guy can tweak. Then will be the time to make the call on that gun, imho. Valtro did not help itself much with some of the shotguns it brought into country, so far as reputation for quality is concerned. I hear though that even that is taking a turn for the better.
I am sure there are many good semi-custom [whatever that really means] pistols out there. I consider a semi-custom to be a less-than-full-house pistol, which would necessarily require one to consider all of the package guns built by Heinie, Vickers, Burns, Garthwaite, Wickmann, etc. That is damned tall clover for a Springfield, Kimber, Baer, Wilson, et al., "custom" shop to compete with.
Having now owned a BCP pistol similar to Dane's FED package gun sold through BCP and PT Partners, and having shot the blazes out of it without a failure, it would be my first choice in a sidearm priced under $2,000. That it sells for $400 or so under that mark, well, so much the better.
Really, instead of judging the class by the nebulous concept of "semi-custom", I think it is better to judge by price point, ie., a sub $1,000 pistol, a sub $1,500 pistol, a sub $2,500 pistol, etc.
The one guy I know who has shot several, has shot them hard. It was his opinion that the pistol he tested finally was as good as you can get for the money.
It will be interesting to see what happens to the quality when sales start to out-strip what a guy can tweak. Then will be the time to make the call on that gun, imho. Valtro did not help itself much with some of the shotguns it brought into country, so far as reputation for quality is concerned. I hear though that even that is taking a turn for the better.
I am sure there are many good semi-custom [whatever that really means] pistols out there. I consider a semi-custom to be a less-than-full-house pistol, which would necessarily require one to consider all of the package guns built by Heinie, Vickers, Burns, Garthwaite, Wickmann, etc. That is damned tall clover for a Springfield, Kimber, Baer, Wilson, et al., "custom" shop to compete with.
Having now owned a BCP pistol similar to Dane's FED package gun sold through BCP and PT Partners, and having shot the blazes out of it without a failure, it would be my first choice in a sidearm priced under $2,000. That it sells for $400 or so under that mark, well, so much the better.
Really, instead of judging the class by the nebulous concept of "semi-custom", I think it is better to judge by price point, ie., a sub $1,000 pistol, a sub $1,500 pistol, a sub $2,500 pistol, etc.
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79 Posts
I think Bruce's point is a good one. The real issue is how much gun you get for the money. That being said, I think many of us like to point out that we have guns that are anything but standard, off the shelf production guns, so we have semi-custom guns and full custom guns. It is a name/ego thing I think. There is no pride in saying you have a standard production gun. That just doesn't sound very sexy.
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709 Posts
I ordered a new Valtro for myself today!
After speaking to John Jardine for about 20 minutes I realized I better stop asking questions and order one. Looking at 6-8 weeks for delivery.
Some details:
1. Frame and slide are forged 4340, not 4140 steel. 4340 nickel chrome moly steel is harder than 4140.
2. They make their own barrels and button rifle them.
3. I ordered with strong side safety only (Ed Brown)rather than ambi safety.
4. His Bomar style sights have been drop tested on the blade numerous times (as part of the California drop test on the hammer) with no breakage. He says sights are stout.
5. Magwell is beveled but you can order a tig-welded big mag well if you want to pay for it. I didn't.
6. He is personally checking and test firing all guns before shipment. Testing includes shooting H&G 200gr. LSWC's, 230 ball and 185 gr. hollow points. He is disassembling, checking internals and re-assembling all guns prior to shipment. (Wonder how long he can keep doing that?)
7. Standard trigger pull set to 3-1/2 lbs. Trigger is "Videki style" (not polymer as pictured). Beavertail is Ed Brown style without "memory grooves". Mainspring housing is flat with arched optional. No plastic anywhere.
8. John Jardine made it clear to the Italians that top quality would return their several million dollar investment many times over. Poor quality would result in a lot of .45 ACP paper weights and they'd wish the cargo container had slipped overboard off the container ship so they could at least get the insurance money.
9. What I'm expecting is an accurate, thoroughly reliable, durable, .45 ACP pistol with a great fit and finish for $1199.00.
10. We'll see what's what in 6-8 weeks.
_________________
"Stripping motivated people of their dignity and rubbing their noses it is a very bad idea."
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: tonerguy on 2001-07-23 18:32 ]</font>
After speaking to John Jardine for about 20 minutes I realized I better stop asking questions and order one. Looking at 6-8 weeks for delivery.
Some details:
1. Frame and slide are forged 4340, not 4140 steel. 4340 nickel chrome moly steel is harder than 4140.
2. They make their own barrels and button rifle them.
3. I ordered with strong side safety only (Ed Brown)rather than ambi safety.
4. His Bomar style sights have been drop tested on the blade numerous times (as part of the California drop test on the hammer) with no breakage. He says sights are stout.
5. Magwell is beveled but you can order a tig-welded big mag well if you want to pay for it. I didn't.
6. He is personally checking and test firing all guns before shipment. Testing includes shooting H&G 200gr. LSWC's, 230 ball and 185 gr. hollow points. He is disassembling, checking internals and re-assembling all guns prior to shipment. (Wonder how long he can keep doing that?)
7. Standard trigger pull set to 3-1/2 lbs. Trigger is "Videki style" (not polymer as pictured). Beavertail is Ed Brown style without "memory grooves". Mainspring housing is flat with arched optional. No plastic anywhere.
8. John Jardine made it clear to the Italians that top quality would return their several million dollar investment many times over. Poor quality would result in a lot of .45 ACP paper weights and they'd wish the cargo container had slipped overboard off the container ship so they could at least get the insurance money.
9. What I'm expecting is an accurate, thoroughly reliable, durable, .45 ACP pistol with a great fit and finish for $1199.00.
10. We'll see what's what in 6-8 weeks.
_________________
"Stripping motivated people of their dignity and rubbing their noses it is a very bad idea."
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: tonerguy on 2001-07-23 18:32 ]</font>
I've had a Valtro 1911 for over a month, with about 500 rounds through the pistol. In addition to the basic package, I arranged for Mr. Jardine to make a few changes (alter the rear sight picture, magwell, and hardchrome finish). Sorry I can't post any pictures -- no camera.
The pistol has shot very well, with no failures to feed or eject. It has proven very accurate, on par with a Les Baer Concept V when fired from a pistol rest. The carry bevel finish is nice, although I do not carry a govenment 1911 due to its size.
It was certainly worth the money, IMHO.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: fla32 on 2001-07-24 13:10 ]</font>
The pistol has shot very well, with no failures to feed or eject. It has proven very accurate, on par with a Les Baer Concept V when fired from a pistol rest. The carry bevel finish is nice, although I do not carry a govenment 1911 due to its size.
It was certainly worth the money, IMHO.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: fla32 on 2001-07-24 13:10 ]</font>
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112 Posts
OK, I'll bite ...
Why hasn't anyone mentioned Wilson's? You may pay a bit more up front, but their service policies make them an excellent long-term value IMO. I'm certainly not complaining.
Chuck
{Edited to correct a small grammatical mistake that was grating the living crap out of me.} :smile:
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: StormMaster on 2001-07-25 02:50 ]</font>
Why hasn't anyone mentioned Wilson's? You may pay a bit more up front, but their service policies make them an excellent long-term value IMO. I'm certainly not complaining.
Chuck
{Edited to correct a small grammatical mistake that was grating the living crap out of me.} :smile:
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: StormMaster on 2001-07-25 02:50 ]</font>
Sam,
You won't be disappointed with your RRA. I cheated (no patience, never had it- never will) and found a slightly used RRA Basic Match owned by another forum member. It had the additional accuracy package and does live up to its manufacturer's claims. Feeds, fires and ejects flawlessly. Best training tool around, because if rounds don't impact in the X-ring I KNOW that its MY fault!
Fit and finish are first rate. I wanted something basic so that I could have it upgraded gradually. I will never be able to hold steady enough to print 1.5 inch groups at 50 yards, but this thing can. I think that you'll be VERY pleased with just how much weapon your $$ bought.
As to the Valtros, are they getting shipped yet? I traded mail with an 'Electric Armadillo' that had waited a LONG time for his. Hey 'Dillo, you out there? Any luck yet?
You won't be disappointed with your RRA. I cheated (no patience, never had it- never will) and found a slightly used RRA Basic Match owned by another forum member. It had the additional accuracy package and does live up to its manufacturer's claims. Feeds, fires and ejects flawlessly. Best training tool around, because if rounds don't impact in the X-ring I KNOW that its MY fault!
Fit and finish are first rate. I wanted something basic so that I could have it upgraded gradually. I will never be able to hold steady enough to print 1.5 inch groups at 50 yards, but this thing can. I think that you'll be VERY pleased with just how much weapon your $$ bought.
As to the Valtros, are they getting shipped yet? I traded mail with an 'Electric Armadillo' that had waited a LONG time for his. Hey 'Dillo, you out there? Any luck yet?
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Valtro Pics
http://www.geocities.com/electric_armadillo
Check the site once a week or so. I'll keep adding pix until I reach my MB limit.
http://www.geocities.com/electric_armadillo
Check the site once a week or so. I'll keep adding pix until I reach my MB limit.
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709 Posts
You're right about Ed Brown, Torpedo. I saw several of his guns this past weekend when I met Terry Peters at the gunshow in Houston.
I liked the Commander Bobtail in particular.
I also saw the Kobra - a real value price.
_________________
"Your aim in life is not worth anything if you don't pull the trigger."
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: tonerguy on 2001-08-06 23:09 ]</font>
I liked the Commander Bobtail in particular.
I also saw the Kobra - a real value price.
_________________
"Your aim in life is not worth anything if you don't pull the trigger."
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: tonerguy on 2001-08-06 23:09 ]</font>
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