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Discussion Starter #1
Have you ever had any of the Series 80 parts malfunction your gun?
 

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What "safety" parts are you talking about? The thumb safety, grip saftey, the disconector or the firing pin lock out?
 

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Clem, I'm assuming Dane means the firing pin block, which is why he specified series 80, but I could be wrong.

Dane, I've never had any problems with them. All but 1 of my 1911's are series 80. Just out of curiosity, what could go wrong or what have you heard could go wrong with the firing pin block?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Hoser on 2001-05-12 12:35 ]</font>
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I was talking about the Series 80 firing pin block as you assumed Hoser :grin: I quess i should have been more clear. Although I haven't seen a problem lately, but I don't see a lot of Series 80 Colts either.

In the late '80s and early '90s almost every Series 80 gun I saw and examined had battering on the firing pin plunger. To the point that some guns stopped working..including one of my own and my spare was battered quite badly by the time I realised the cause. Some fine tuning of the plunger cuts and a longer lever seemed to solve the problem then. I just wondered if anyone had seen the same problems lately.
 

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Dane,

That battering you see is usually due to people disassembling their guns and not putting them together correctly. It is possible to get the lower lever leaning too far forward and the rear leg will sit in front of the upper lever rather than behind it(lower lever pre set in fully engaged position). The result is that the upper lever does not get pushed up when the trigger is pulled, the gun won't fire, and the firing pin gets rammed into the safety plunger. The first instinct for many is to pull the hammer and try to fire it again (and possibly again). The really battered plungers are most likely the result of reassembling and then dry firing for a period of time before actually shooting the gun (guilty of that one myself). I have made it a point for the last ten years or so to check lever operation before dry firing or live firing these guns (either after disassembly or after obtaining someone else's) to prevent such damage.

The second cause of series 80 parts problems is when the plunger spring is not inserted correctly and gets sideways or kinked in the hole. Gun may or may not fire and plunger can get battered this way. It is best to seat the spring in the plunger and insert it from the bottom of the slide to ensure it goes in right. I have started streching the lower coild to provide a snug seat in the plunger and this basically eliminates this worry. I have also made it a practice to retract the slide and test this button upon reassembly or upon handling an unfamiliar gun.

All that said, I have never seen series 80 safety failure in any of the series 80 guns that could not be attributed to these two reasons (or one reason - improper reassembly). I expect that I have handled well over 50 and possibly closer to 100 series 80 Colts. It is my experience that if they are reassembled correctly, the series 80 safety will always allow the gun to fire when the trigger is pulled, and it will positively stop the firing pin when the safety is engaged even with REPEATED blows. The series 80 safety will also go many hundreds and possibly thousands of rounds without detail cleaning or lubing. I have purposely tested this and seldom take the parts out of a slide - or lube them for that matter.

Long winded answer but I am a series 80 fan...what can I say.
 

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Only relevant "malfunction" I've ever experienced was the spring for the firing block plunger/pin became worn (original part in a heavily used Series 80 38S ). No problem after replacing it during a scheduled detail strip/clean.




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Roger D on 2001-05-12 15:44 ]</font>
 

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No probs with 2 Para P13-45's, and 1 Colt Commander. I do make sure that the plunger and levers are polished and lubed every time I detail strip however.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
On 2001-05-12 13:55, James wrote:
That battering you see is usually due to people disassembling their guns and not putting them together correctly.
That is entirely incorrect. The battering that I have seen (on more than my own guns btw) is quite clearly incorrect fitting from the Colt factory on the series 80 parts system.

I believe that problem has been solved over time but it was not and has not been operator error in the cases I whitnessed.

Dry firing should not in anyway peen the plunger assembly if the gun is correctly set up.
 

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My NIB Colt MK IV 9x23 failed to fire out of the box, the firing pin safety slowed down the firing pin to cause light strikes. a local guy at the range took out the series 80 parts on the spot for me and then the gun shot fine, still stove piped every other round though.
It is now in the land of Microsoft :smile:

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shay on 2001-05-12 17:17 ]</font>
 

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I saw a Double Eagle 10mm that had a problem with the firing pin block. It locked the firing pin forward, so the round didn't feed.
In the Single actions, I've never seen or heard of a problem.
 

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On 2001-05-12 16:54, Dane Burns wrote:
[quote:7lboystu]
On 2001-05-12 13:55, James wrote:
That battering you see is usually due to people disassembling their guns and not putting them together correctly.
That is entirely incorrect. The battering that I have seen (on more than my own guns btw) is quite clearly incorrect fitting from the Colt factory on the series 80 parts system.

I believe that problem has been solved over time but it was not and has not been operator error in the cases I whitnessed.

Dry firing should not in anyway peen the plunger assembly if the gun is correctly set up.
[/quote:7lboystu]

That is NOT "ENTIRELY" incorrect. I said usually caused by improper reassembly (I probably should have typed the sentence to say "the battering I have seen or heard about" instead of "you see" - meant to be generic - my mistake).

I would bet money, if it could be proven, that a vast majority of peened plungers come from people fiddling with the parts than there are guns improperly fit from the factory. I have heard rumors of incorrect fitting from the factory but I have not run across one yet that the peening continued after a new plunger was installed and the gun reassembled correctly. Would be odd that you somehow managed to get a hold of nothing but misfit series 80 guns.

The one "cause" I forgot to mention was that many "smiths" set the overtravel screw in their aftermarket target triggers in such a manner that the trigger doesn't go far enough to fully operate the levers. I didn't mention this as I usually chalk this up to smith error rather than factory error. Is it possible that the triggers had been replaced on all of these faulty series 80 guns that you saw?

Your right, dry firing shouldn't peen the plunger if set up correctly BUT it will peen the plunger if the levers aren't in the gun right - don't believe it - try it yourself.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: James on 2001-05-14 12:12 ]</font>
 

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Back when the lightweight Officers ACP first came out, I had one batter the plunger pretty badly. It never caused a failure to fire, but burrs were raised around the entire perimeter of the plunger. I and most of my associates replace the frame levers with a shim plate and remove the slide plunger in the Series 80 pistols. If I were required to keep these parts in place, I would examine them carefully at each cleaning and verify proper operation with the pencil-down-the-barrel test after each reassembly.

Rosco
 

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Discussion Starter #14
On 2001-05-14 08:59, James wrote:
That is NOT "ENTIRELY" incorrect. I said usually caused by improper reassembly
OK, I just haven't seen the improper assembly problems.

I have heard rumors of incorrect fitting from the factory but I have not run across one yet that the peening continued after a new plunger was installed and the gun reassembled correctly. Would be odd that you somehow managed to get a hold of nothing but misfit series 80 guns.
Not "odd" at all. The vast majority of Colt guns I worked on from the inception of the system in the early '80s till mid 1990's had incorrectly fitted Series 80 parts installed. Every smith I knew at the time (3) had similar problems. There was a reason that Colt has 3 size leves for the system. Most guns I saw had the incorrect size plunger lever. It needed to be longer.

The one "cause" I forgot to mention was that many "smiths" set the overtravel screw in their aftermarket target triggers in such a manner that the trigger doesn't go far enough to fully operate the levers.
A given. Another incorrectly fitted gun.

BUT it will peen the plunger if the levers aren't in the gun right
I see my confusion. I always assume the gun is put together correctly. If the plunger levers aren't in the correct position the GUN WILL NOT FIRE. That is a bit more of a problem than just the resulting peening don't you agree? Let me be clear when I am discussing a series 80 system, the only way it will work, is, by first being assembled correctly and any after market parts being fitted correctly. I expect a gun to be assembled correctly at the factory, or a pistolsmith. Colt had problems with this issue in the past. They seem to be producing a quality product now IMO.

Any gun will have problems if not assembled correctly.

My question was to see if anyone was currently having problems with Series 80 guns. Seems like Shay was the only one so far from the dscussion.
 

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Have had feeding problems with two Series 80's I've played with (one of which came from a rather well known shop for aftermarket work) but didn't choose to keep them long enough to resolve the problems. Currently have one Officers ACP that seems to work well though it has never been my choice as a carry gun simply because I see no advantage over my old Commanders. It mostly rests in a desk alcove where a full size 1911 would serve even better--though I'm sure a case could be made that the short barrel makes for a speedier presentation from a letter niche...

My problem with the Series 80 lies simply in having no reason to opt for any piece which functioned well and suddenly ends up with extra parts dictated by legal factors rather than functional necessity. If I did not have a minimally acceptable battery of Series 70 and earlier pieces, I would be more concerned, and would opt for removal of the 80 parts on a personal weapon if for no other reason than adding parts to something that works well enough generally adds problems rather than greater efficiency.

Of course, I also don't own weapons with safety warnings stamped all over the piece, full length guide rods, extended slide stops, and optical sights either...then again, on reading this, I may just be out of synch with the times.
 

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I see my confusion. I always assume the gun is put together correctly. If the plunger levers aren't in the correct position the GUN WILL NOT FIRE. That is a bit more of a problem than just the resulting peening don't you agree?
Yeah, no kidding, I already said that it wouldn't fire that way. I didn't say that the peening was more of a problem, I said that it would cause the peening (until you take it back apart and fix it - obviously). Kinda surprises me that you have never heard about or seen the levers going in wrong and not working. I guess you really don't see many 80 series guns.

Let me be clear when I am discussing a series 80 system, the only way it will work, is, by first being assembled correctly and any after market parts being fitted correctly.
It will obviously fire when not assembled or fitted properly. You are claiming this whole peening problem is caused by improperly fit guns from the factory - and they must have fired as you didn't have to take them apart and reassemble them correctly. The gun will sometimes fire with the plunger spring improperly kinked sideways (depends on how well they rammed it into the hole) in the plunger AND it can also peen this way.

My question was to see if anyone was currently having problems with Series 80 guns. Seems like Shay was the only one so far from the dscussion.
Your original question was
Have you ever had any of the Series 80 parts malfunction your gun?
EVER? To give you a simple answer (as it appears that is what you are after)....NO...not currently NOR in the late 80s and Early 90s.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Kinda surprises me that you have never heard about or seen the levers going in wrong and not working. I guess you really don't see many 80 series guns.
I guess we have been having different conversations James. Easy enough to do on the internet.

I don't consider putting a gun together incorrectly, a Series 80 problem. It never occured to me someone might.

You are correct, I don't see those kinds of problems :grin:
 

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I don't consider it a series 80 problem...just a cause for peening (which is the problem you specified).

We probably are having separate conversations AGAIN. Can't figure out why it is you and I always do this.

Must be you :grin:

Later Dane!
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I don't consider it a series 80 problem
Oh it's YOU :grin: I should have recognised the name;)

I don't consider the series 80 stuff a problem. I have seen problems with series 80 parts fitting in the past and with one currently.

From a reliability stand point and wear issues I guess we might disagree on the "usefulness" of a series 80. That OK? :grin:
 

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Hey, you're having your conversation and I am having mine....don't be trying to rope me into some kind of agreement :grin:

We can agree that the series 80 firing pin safety isn't necessary or exactly the best idea to come along re: 1911s.

I just wish we could get on the same channel for this other topic instead of agreeing to disagree.

Oh well, maybe one day.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: James on 2001-05-14 16:38 ]</font>
 
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