[tucor]

Looking for small concealed carry gun. Narrowed it down to these two, well maybe the walther ppk also. Before you ask, yes i've looked at the sig 239, I like it but it weighs more than I would like. I have several guns, but am looking for very light weight so I'll carry it more often. I was set on the sig 232 until I held the karhr P9. The P9 is virtually the same weight (including magazines), and comes in a 9mm. I like the feel of both.

Can anyone give me some reasons as to why I should go with the sig? Or reasons for the kahr.

thanks,

 

[Guest]

Tucor, when you get to really small and light handguns there is really only one to have all the time. What is it? The Kel-Tec P32. Aside from this pistol all have some negatives to me. Stephen A. Camp had trouble with his Kahr P9 and I am sure he then went to a Glock 26. My Kahrs feel like a brick in my hand. What do I mean? They are very heavy for their size but accurate, have a great trigger, and reliable. I love my Air Weight J-frames but those little buggers kick like a small mule. With everything there is a trade off. The Walther pistols look good but bite the hand that feeds them. If I had to go with a Sig I would look for the alloy frame P230, I don't know if Sig makes an alloy P232, but again, these puppies kick. Regards, Richard

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Richard on 2001-05-20 08:12 ]</font>

 

[Guest]

If I may offer an opinion I have owned several Kahrs and I have found them to be exceptional pistols. I have had several female/agents sutdents in class over the past year that use Kahr P9 and MK9 pistols as backup and CC weapons. I was so impressed with the P9 I bought one. My P9 wears Ashley Tritium big dot front/rear sights and a Harrts recoil recucer, I modified the slide stop and it is now more "glock" like in profile and no longer presents itslef for snagging, I smoothed the trigger further and it now breaks at 6lbs. This pistol is very smooth and very reliable and my spouse has found it to be her preferred carry gun with Winchester Ranger 127gr. +P+ rounds. She shoots 1" groups all day long with it and although her five round test times still run 1.7 seconds on average or so, I am comfortable with her choice. She often wears it in a Mitch Rosen IWB holster.

 

[Rob Longenecker]

I agree with David that the Kahr P9 is a great pistol. They did have a run of P9's in which the slide stop spring was poorly retained. They have had a factory fix for this of which I took advantage. Now it is ultra reliable.

Question for David: when you recontoured the slide stop did you find it to be plated or solid stainless steel. It looks plated, but I'm not sure. I'd like to do a little recontouring myself.

Can't find a more compact, lighter (17 oz.) 9mm.

 

[goldmatch45]

Have you checked out a 380 colt ponypocketlite? Its a great gun, traded a keltec p-32 in for it. I also have a 232 it is a fine gun, but for the weight and size I would find a larger caliber gun. you should also look at the .380 offered by NAA http://www.naaminis.com/ they offfer a real nice melt down and a guttersite system that makes this a super fine pocket gun!

 

[tucor]

I ended up getting the Sig 232. I found one for $365. I like the Kahr and wish the sig was a 9mm, but the Sig just fit my hand better. Now for that HK P7M8!!!

 

[Guest]

Tonerguy,
I ordered replacement stops from Kahr in SS, they are in fact all SS.
Tucor,
As to the .380 as a defensive cartridge, seriously practice headshots almost exclusively. Stopping power books and indexs be damned as a defensive weapon against 160lbs and up predators it is a paperweight (believe me I have first hand knowledge and no, I will not elaborate). Ask Jim over in "pass the ammunition" about the .380? Seriously, 9mm is the absolute minimum round that you can expect to work against a average to medium large size predator and that is only with very shot placement with good rounds and mutliple hits...Any predator over 200lbs and you will need at least a .45acp.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: David DiFabio on 2001-05-26 17:50 ]</font>

 

[Rob Longenecker]

Wanna see a Kahr P9 with a shortened frame that takes MK9 magazines?
Then check this out!

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/sho ... adid=67088

I have a P9 but I'll wait for Kahr to come out with a version like this. I'll bet they do.

_________________
Dealing with the government, for every "freedom from..." you gain you lose a "freedom to...."

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: tonerguy on 2001-05-29 09:43 ]</font>

 

[Teddy Jacobson]

I know about all these guns you are talking about. I have found that all the kahr pistols have a slow trigger return except the Elite 98 and the polymer, in fact I just did one for TONER GUY. AS for the colt pony faghaboutit, its a real problem gun. I just wrote an extensive article that was just published in American Gunsmith Magazine about the colt 380 pistols. Toner Guy is correct that the 380 cal is a step up from a mouse gun. The sig 239 is the best small sig pistol. I do not think that the 232 is as good as the older 230 because the newer model has a reset spring design in the hammer, it has a terrible trigger pull out of the box and if you limp wrist the 230 or 232 it will jam. As for the walther ppk or ppk/s they are affectionately referred to as the jam o matic. I could go on and on. You want a good small pistol or revolver for YOUR POCKET. The sw 640 centennial is excellent. The Colt mustang is far better than the pony. The small NAA mini revolver is excellent in 22 mag with a 1 5/8 inch barrel. For a small 9 mm I like the Glock 26 and the sig 239 and the SW 3913 which I can make slick as glass. Any question contact me. Stop reading the magazines ask your self who is getting a free gun.

Teddy Jacobson / Pistolsmith
http://www.actionsbyt.com
281 277 4008
[email protected]

 

[Chad Ward]

Personally, I'm quite fond of the Colt Mustang Pocketlite. I did a quick review of the .380 cartridge and its various delivery systems for Todd Green's excellent Calibers web page http://www.greent.com/40Page/. Check it out if you're interested. Might lead to some lively discussion :wink:.

Chad

 

[Guest]

Opinions aside, I have very close personal knowledge of the .380 against two legged predators and if you believe that outside of a contact spine shot or a neck/head shot you will do anything other than really piss off your attacker(s) you are really asking for trouble....the only mouse gun I will carry is the Seacamp .32 and only when loaded with Hornandy XTP bullets. I practice the correct shot placement and always back this pistol up with at least one good folder/fixed blade (Emerson) and this is only to buy me time so I can get out of there, I have no delusions about stopping an attack with a .32acp. I will accept the .38spcl only when loaded with the Winchester Ranger Talon 125gr +P loading and again in the same mode/purpose as the Seacamp.
If you must carry a pocket gun I strongly suggest at least a .38spcl with very good ammo and the 9mm +P at a minimum with multiple rounds on target with good shot placement.
Your .380 with Winchester Silvertip and Federal Hydra shock rounds may stop a 60-70lbs dog or animal on the attack with good shot placement and 4-5rounds on target, if you must use it against a two legged predator with any determination run, run quickly…

 

[Chad Ward]

Your .380 with Winchester Silvertip and Federal Hydra shock rounds may stop a 60-70lbs dog or animal on the attack with good shot placement and 4-5rounds on target, if you must use it against a two legged predator with any determination run, run quickly…

David, "run, run quickly" is always the first line of defense :smile:. Second line of defense is move-shoot-move-run away (repeat as necessary).

I agree with you about the .380 just barely being better than a large rock. Personally, I don't trust anything less than a .40 to have a reasonable chance of stopping the fight with any finality. However, all handgun rounds are notoriously ineffective to one degree or another. If the best you can do at a given time (for whatever reason) is a .380, then use it to the best of your ability -- and that'd better be pretty f'ing good -- and use the time it buys you to get away.

BTW, given your experience and history, I'd be very interested in your response to my "Tactical Library" question on the Tactics & Training forum.

Best,
Chad

 

[jaydee]

On 2001-05-20 12:05, David DiFabio wrote:
I was so impressed with the P9 I bought one. My P9 wears Ashley Tritium big dot front/rear sights and a Harrts recoil recucer, I modified the slide stop and it is now more "glock" like in profile and no longer presents itslef for snagging, I smoothed the trigger further and it now breaks at 6lbs. This pistol is very smooth and very reliable and my spouse has found it to be her preferred carry gun with Winchester Ranger 127gr. +P+ rounds. She shoots 1" groups all day long with it and although her five round test times still run 1.7 seconds on average or so, I am comfortable with her choice. She often wears it in a Mitch Rosen IWB holster.

David...

I found it quite interesting that you mentioned using +P+'s on the P9. I had tried using +P's in mine, but was apprehensive of using the +P+ Hydrashok BP9LE's I have. I actually was trying to find any info on Kahr's website on whether they recommend or approve of +P+'s in the Polymer, since that's my preferrence for defense uses. I had been meaning to write Fank Harris and ask, but I would imagine that he'd say they don't recommend them.

I'd imagine that they feel pretty "sharp" in the light gun.

I also "melted" my slide stop, and it came out nicely. I can also attest to the use of Stainless, and not plating for the stop. Also, Kahr did replace the stops in the newer models, and the newer style stops have a rotating style pin, FWIW.

I had done some polishing on the trigger, as Scott MacDougal recommended, but now that I have learned that Teddy is working these, I will probably send mine to him.

I had planned to have Scott MacDougal perform the grip mod on mine, but have grown to prefer the longer length. It is still very concealable in my Alessi Talon +, and while I have medium sized hands, find it very comfortable, compared to the MK length grip. FWIW, i understand that Kahr with be doing a "Covert" model of the Polymers, using the short grip with the standard slide, ala Mac Scott. I had spoken to Frank about this last year, and mentioned it would be nice, as well as the doing the 40, which he said at that time was in development, and is now available, so I would imagine the "Covert" is coming soon.

The P9 has become my daily gun. While I still prefer a 1911 to anything, the size, and weight of the P9, coupled with the chambering makes this the best compromise for me, personally. I have carried .32's and .380's, and consider the 9 my minimum caliber today, but it's only acceptable with good quality ammo, and I prefer HydraShok's.

I will add that while I consider my P9 completely reliable today, and would bet my life on mine, I was less than happy when the extractor broke on the 4th round out of the box with factory ball. Kahr repaired it and had it back to me in 3 days, and covered all costs, and it's since been rock solid. I highly recommend putting it through a good break in before you choose to carry it, as with any other gun.

David, I'd be interested in hearing more about the Harts reducer, and comparison's with and without.

 

[Guest]

Jaydee,
I don't know what Kahr's recommendations are as I really don't care if they rate the pistol for it or not, I rarely pay attention to those things anyhow. If and when it breaks I will just buy a new one....
Seriously, I believe the P9 can handle the increased pressure, it will just wear at a faster rate.
It functions very well with my chosen ammo and it is very accurate, as to dependability, on the first day I owned the pistol it went to the range with me and 1,000 rounds of Remington 115gr +P+ Golden Saber ammo, yes 115gr and yes I know it is not a standard catalog item.
The P9 functioned very well and was completely reliable, except the fact that my left knuckle bled from contacting the slide stop as a result of my large hands and sharp slide stop in a forward thumb grip. I find the Harrts to be quite effective, but I do have a different shooting style, my double taps tend to sound like one shot and I tend to experience only muzzle rise from most autopistols, I have fairly thick/large hands and I find that even the .454 Casull has mild recoil (pushback) but good muzzle snap (upward rise). It may work for you or it may not. I have no qualms with the P9 as a carry gun and I believe the Winchester Ranger Talon 127gr +P+ ammo will do its job if proper shot placement is used, were that ammo not available I would need to consider my choice in alternate ammo very carefully and I seriously caution anyone who depends on a 9mm as their defensive pistol to be very careful with their choice of carry ammo as the 9mm is very much an up and down caliber when it comes to effectiveness.

 

[jrd1911]

Don't overlook the new Kahr P40(?); it is basically a P9 in 40 S&W. Same size but 1 less round and I think it weighs 1 ounce more.

I agree with Teddy on the S&W 640. As fine a pocket revolver as ever made. I have been thinking about having mine worked on by a smith, an action job and front night sight installed.

I am looking forward to the introduction of the Taurus concealed hammer small framed pistols. The Scandium may be decent too if you do not mind buying from S&W and paying 600.00 for a 5 shot revolver.

John

 

[Guest]

jrd1911,
At the risk of starting a long debate, I cannot find a compelling reason to sacrifice one round in a perfectly functioning pistol. Specifically, with all due respect to some truly excellent marketing hype and promotion the P40 (.40S&w) does not offer an advantage over the P9 (.9mm +P+) in either reliability, accuracy, or "stopping Power".
If Kahr were to produce a .357Sig- P357 version then I would see a compelling reason to purchase one as the .357sig does indeed offer enhanced reliability, accuracy, and improved "Stopping Power". I would in fact purchase a .357Sig version in a heartbeat.

 

[jaydee]

I'm with David on this, I was one that considered the 40 to be the best compromise of caliber, but it has not really proven to be any better than certain 9mm, or .45 rounds.

The .357 Sig would be the only reason I would consider doing the 40, but for now, Kahr isn't making a barrel, although I would imagine that they CAN be found.

Personally, I don't like losing a round either, and feel comfortable in my choice of ammo for the 9. Having only a 7+1 doesn't bother me either, since it is what I survived with for nearly 20 years with the 1911.

I truly love the size of the package, and the simplicity of the design. I have considered doing the Colt Pocket Nine, but with Magazines being expensive, and hard to find, and the loss of 1 round, it just didn't make sense. Of course, if Kahr only offered the guns in the "K" version, with no Polymer type, The Colt would have been the pick.

I would like to see Kahr do an Alloy version as well, but it's probably not going to happen. If they could build an Alloy, and it was in the same ballpark for weight, I'd dump the Plastic. Having some nice Wood Stocks on an Alloy/Stainless handgun just suits my tastes.

 

[jrd1911]

Hey guys no argument from me, I am a shot placement advocate, not a caliber converter. I say shoot whatever you can handle accurately.

I will say that I have read no proof that the 357 sig is any more reliable than the 40 S&W. I have read acticles where it is mentioned that the 357 Sig "should" be more reliable (Glock related articles). But like all articles I take what they say with a grain of salt.

I owned a P9 with Trijicons. Loved to carry it. In fact I carried concealed more often than I ever have because of the small frame, light weight issue. I think the Kahr is a great gun. My only beef with it was that the trigger was difficult for me, but that is not to say that others will enjoy it.

 

[CQB]

Nice choice w/ the P232. Now load up with the Remington 102gr GS and your good to go.......

 

[Trebleg1]

Sig 232 vs Pony vs Walther

I spent quite a lot of time researching these three and the other ones mentioned never even were considered by many sources I read. I assume that they are less expensive and serve in that respect but I have never heard that they compare in quality, asthetics, longevity and carriability. The Mustang and the 239 sig are just bigger guns and for some who want to downsize from a full size 1911 or p220, they would be great but when I went to find the most quality that money could buy in a very small carry piece, I found these three and the winner was the sig. I don't like the European mag release but I love the ease of take down. Those two are a wash but in every other category the sig is hands down the best. I'm probably bias because of my love for my 220 but this 232 packs lite and no predator wants to get shot by any size bullet.
I'll have to look into some of these other brands that some of you mentioned.

Thanks,

Patrick