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Discussion Starter #1
I have been a little busy the last few weeks trying to get caught up and deliver some of the guns I have promised.

Which made me think of Springfield products since the last gun I finished (just hours ago) was a 38 Super gun built on one of the Springfield parts kits supplied to Dick Heinie for the Single Stack Classic.

I am not new to Springfield. My "hog" gun is a Springfield frame I built years ago. It is still one of my favorites. I have been lucky enough to do some very good shooting with that frame.

I have shot several of the actual issue FBI guns from Springfield. Nothing to write home about IMO. Nice but they could be better spec ed and executed I think. One of the reasons for the birth of the Kimber FED package. The "FED" is a better gun and costs less to produce if you have to buy your own.

I have rebuilt or worked on a number of GI guns from Springfield over the last 5 years. The most memorable was the kit gun I built for Heinie's SSC in 1999. Another nice gun but nothing exceptional about it as I put it together. Typical good and bad that I had come to expect from Springfield. Aftere a few dozen of the Springfield 9x23s I had been underwhelmed.

This latest gun in 38 Super was a HUGE set up in quality IMO though. The frame came oversize and was easily fitted to the frame. All the pins were in perfect alignment. The small parts were better than GI spec and allowed me to not waste a lot of parts as I installed Heinie sights, and a BarSto barrel. Vediecki trigger went right in and fit up well. Only the race way for the trigger was slightly off spec. But not enough to bother anything. I shaved the dust cover and scallops shaved the grip strap to a more user friendly and Colt like contour. Added a .25" beavertail with little fuss and no thought of a reweld or other shenaigans. Just a great, tight fit, at the contour.

Gun came out very nice in my opinion. Good enough that I am going to see if I can buy some of the kits myself. Only problem I can see is having to surface grind off all the extra logos on the sides :eek:

Past that, the Springfield gets a high recommendation. Check their guns out. I was pleasantly surprised to see the improvement Springfield has made in 3 years.

Now if they would just cut the front strap correctly, lighten up that dust cover and tone down the logos they would have a incredible gun :grin:

Hell of a base gun, as is, for a 9x23 though!


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dane Burns on 2001-04-21 21:46 ]</font>
 

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Thanks for that...

Have you noticed any improvement in ANY of the assembled guns? If so, which ones? Is the mil-spec still the way to go for a production SA?

TIA...:wink:

...I wonder if they'll take my 5$ down payment deal?
 

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Well, maybe it is time I gave SA another try.

Dane, if you get parts in that satisfy you, put me down for a down for a Springfield BCP in 9x23. The round kicks ass, and hey, you can't have too many good pistols, right?

I would like this one to have Heinie 8's on it, time I give them a try as well. Grind off whatever you can, leave whatever you have to, and let's make this one a black beauty :smile:

Course, if you have a beater laying around there in 9x23.... :grin: :grin:
 

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On 2001-04-21 22:03, Bruce wrote:
Well, maybe it is time I gave SA another try.

Dane, if you get parts in that satisfy you, put me down for a down for a Springfield BCP in 9x23. The round kicks ass, and hey, you can't have too many good pistols, right?

I would like this one to have Heinie 8's on it, time I give them a try as well. Grind off whatever you can, leave whatever you have to, and let's make this one a black beauty :smile:

Course, if you have a beater laying around there in 9x23.... :grin: :grin:
I'll be sending my recently accuired Springfield to Dane for a 9x23 treatment. after reading this I'm going to get it there asap skipping alot of other things I planned on doing before hand. The one I've got has a few things that could have been better done at the factory: mainspring housing is not fit correctly, recoil spring guide was battering the bbl at the link pivot, disconnector hangs the slide up a little, and a few cosmetic things as mentioned that are associated with the way they make thier frames etc(hell my Para's aren't even that sloppy :smile: heh heh heh)
but even at that it does shoot nicely and Dane will certainly turn it into the handcannon it should be :grin: I'm going for the bead blast matte look with ambi safety and some african black wood grips leaving the serrations as is and everthing else as the 9x23 Guru sees fit :grin: Owwwmmmmmm
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I just got in two of the newest loaded guns to work on. These are a SWEET piece for a production gun. Something to finally give Kimber a little competition on for a base gun.

That has not been a easy thing to do!

Nice job Springfield :grin:



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Dane Burns on 2001-05-08 00:22 ]</font>
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I was talking across the board about the Springfield guns. the 45s are exceptional guns also. Take a look at Loaded Model John at Precision Gun works recently did on this forum. Nice guns!
 

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Dane,

What do you like about these new loaded Springfields?
 

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Not to throw a wet blanket on this SA parade, but SA "stock" guns still do not have a proper barrel to slide lockup. It took my old, slow brain a while to figure out how all of my Kimbers (5) had upper barrel lug contact with the slide lugs. Obviously Kimber cannot provide a true hand fitted barrel and sell the Custom series guns for the price they do. It appears they are using the barrel lug radius to push the barrel up against the slide lugs during lockup. This is, of course, not the proper way to do it, but it seems to work. All of my Kimbers grouped under 1 1/2"at 25 yds. A couple of them go under 1".
Back years ago when I built 1911s the SA NM kit was my first choice. Hole location was very accurate and the rails had plenty of material for fitting. The new "Loaded" SAs are fitted much better than they were 5 yrs ago. They are better, but a "stock" SA is still not in the same class as a Kimber. Just my opinion and we all know what opinions are like 'cause we all have one.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Lets make a comparison apples to apples on Springfield and Kimber....the newest loaded models are IMO some ways better, some ways not as good as a Kimber Classic...same goes for a Kimber. Depends on your personal preferences. Either is a good gun and I believe the retail prices are still better on the Springfield.

Comparing GI guns, you have a Colt 1991, and a Springfield GI gun. Same class I suspect, again Springfield is cheaper and from what I have seen in my gunsmith classes and in my shop the GI Springfield is an excellent buy.

Barrels? GI spec barrels are never going to be what Kimber uses. Kimber has an excellent base barrel..their fit is something to be desired as is the GI drop in spec from either Colt or Springfield. That is a given in any mass production gun.PLEASE don't start making comparisons that Kimber barrel fit is better or close to being correct...because it is ,only as compared to GI guns which aren't either. No question Kimber is a better fit than a GI style gun. Kimbers are still not a correctly fitted in the dozens I have seen.

The Springfield Loaded models have the equal now in barrel and at least as much detail in its fitting from what I have seen in comaprison to Kimber. Just my experience. And no question the step up in quality is directly related to Kimber products. End result is we all win with better guns and more choices.
 

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I agree with the end result. I don't care who is raising the bar, as long as everyone else is raising their's. Bottom line, there will be more quality guns to choose and from different makers.
 

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Dane, I think we are agreeing. While the Kimber barrel is not fitted correctly at least they are getting upper lug contact with the slide. The last SA Loaded I worked on did not come close to having any upper lug contact. SA has dramatically improved the quality of their guns from where they were even 5 yrs ago, I think in part from Kimber taking the 1911 market from them. Competition breeds improvement. The end result is a win for consumers.
 
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I recently picked up a Springfield TRP-PRO model and I must say that it is heads and shoulders above my Kimber Gold Combat model.
It is exceptionally accurate and the Nowlin barrel is very nicely fitted. Even the Armory Kote finish seems to be well done and evenly applied. The checkering is clean and square with well defined borders and the pistol has a very nice trigger breaking at 4lbs even. I purchased it for dealer cost which placed it squarely in competition with the Kimber and IMO it is an exceptional pistol, and I am very impressed at how far Springfield's quality has come. I have no qualms in recommending it to anyone looking for a quality semi custom pistol and I think it speaks highly of Dane to recognize Springfield for the improvements they have made. I can even live with the Novak sights on this pistol although I definitely prefer Heinie sights.
I plan to depart for the range with a fresh case of Black Hills 230 gr. GD JHP ammo and two dozen Wilson Mags this weekend, now if only my Garrity Shark skin and Rosen ARG DL holsters would arrive.
 

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So what would you do to the Pro model that isn't currently done? I mean short of tossing every piece (or the entire piece)what would you swap, modify, or adjust to make this Springfield Pro worthy? I'm not trying to be a smart-elleck I really want to know from those who know about these things. Can Springfield make these changes or does the pistol still need to go to a high end smith?
 

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...huh?
 

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Hi Mookie White,
Really, nothing NEEDS to be done to a SA Pro model unless there are certain cosmetic changes or special requests such as serrating the top of slide, specific beavertial you'd like, ect.

If you want a gun built EXACTLY the way you want it, buy parts or a base gun like Colt 1991A1 or SA Mil Spec and have at it with a custom smith.
 

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Mookie,

Not to put words in David's mouth, but he was referring to a TRP-Pro NOT the Pro that you have. Similar in name (and unfortunately confusing) but two distinctly different pistols. The Pro is a higher end gun if you want to call it that. The Pro was once known as the Bureau Model before the lawyers got involved...
 
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