What is, Was, Your Carry Ammo & How many times has it change

Hello. In 9mm, I used to carry Cor*Bon 115 gr +P, but went to Triton's 125 gr +P HiVel JHP. It feeds more "slickly" than did the CorBon out of ALL my magazines and groups much better in some guns and at least as well in the others. Velocity remains a respectable 1250+ ft/sec compared to the 1380 ft/sec I got with the CorBon from my HPs. I also think this might offer a tad more penetration in the event an arm gets in the way. I cannot tell a difference in effect on critters.

In .45ACP, I go with Federal 230 gr HydraShok
as they hit the same point of aim as ball and seem to be liked by both M & S as well as Dr. Fackler's crew. Did fine on one coyote, but that's all I've shot with it. Did fine on javelina,too, and those are tough little dudes.

In 2" airweight .38 Spec, I like Federal standard pressure 125 gr Nyclads. Expand well, easy to control, and in my gun, hit very close to point of aim out to about 10 yards.

My PRIMARY defensive load is Remington 000 buck. I changed from #4 buck after seen a dude take three hits before slowly dropping.
He was shot in the right side from about 12 yards out.

Best.

Issue ammo for out duty weapons is Federal 230 gr. Hydra Shok.

Personal Carry:

Rem/Win 158 LHP in J-frames

Win +P+ 127 Ranger SXT or +P Gold Dot in G-26

Win 115 Silver Tip in Kahr MK-9

230 Golden Saber or Win SXT in 1911

Federal PP load 135 gr. H.S. in my C&S Adventurer

Remington 00 Buck 8 pellet Reduced Recoil in my 870's. Great patterns!!!!

On 2001-04-12 23:54, David DiFabio wrote:
This is a question that I have asked more than once and I am very curious to hear your choices, likes, dislikes, experiences etcetera.

Click to expand...

My main "dislike" is that manufacturers tend to change components at will, which can drastically effect the termial performance of the load. I recently tested in meat a popular 115 gr. +P+ load that some people have reported as quite effective but the lot that I have blew up (it was provided directly from the manufacture for LEO testing) and no part of it penetrated more than 5", about the same as a Glaser Safety Slug - totally inadequate for all but a face on hit to say the sternum. I try to keep up on the current ammo but it is almost impossible (there are at least 5 and I beleive there are as many as 7 versions of .45 230 Federal Hydra-Shok).

With that, duty loads (as opposed to hunting loads) subject to change:

.460 Rowland - Triton Hi-vel (I have not yet considered this a real "duty" cart.)
.45 Super - Triton Hi-Vel (now discontinued)
.45 ACP +P - Win. Ranger SXT (black Talon) 230, Triton +P Hi-Vel
.45 ACP - Fed. 230 H.S., Triton 230 or 200 Hi-vel, Wilson 200 XTP, Hornaday 230 or 200 XTP.
.44 Mag. - Win. 210 Silver-Tip, Triton 165 Mag-Lite,
.44 Spl - Speer Blazer (I know :sad 200 Gold Dot, (testing Triton)
.41 Mag - Win 175 Silver-Tip
10mm - Win. 175 Silver-Tip
.40 S&W - Triton 155 Hi-vel, Speer 165 G.D., Rem 165 G.S.
9X23 - Win. USA 125 jsp, Handload 147 [email protected] fps.
.357 Mag - Win. 145 Silver-Tip, Fed. 158 H.S., Fed. 130 P.D., Speer 125 G.D., Triton 125 G.D. (testing Fed. 140 Classic for adoption)
.38 spl - handload 145 Win S.T. loaded to 1100 fps from 2" rev.
9mm - Triton 135 +P Hi-vel, 135 Fed. H.S., Win +P+ 127 Ranger Talon, Federal 147 "Classic" jhp.
.380... just kidding :smile: (after 4 acquaintences used, or had one used on them, with disastours results - and no succeses - I gave mine away).

Food for thought,
Jim H.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jim Higginbotham on 2001-04-13 14:22 ]</font>

1. GI Ball
2. 230gr XTP
3. Original "Evil" Black Talon
4. 230gr XTP
5. 230gr Hydra
Now thinking about trying out 230gr G.S. just for "S&G".

Dane & others: What do you guys think about G.S.? Thanks.

_________________
Make It Hot!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: dpcdivr on 2001-04-13 18:09 ]</font>

David wrote;
Again great info:
How many of us have used Glaser/MagSafe/BeeSafe/Geco rounds?
How about the B.A.T. rounds?
PMC Thunderzap? Cirilo Law Grabbers?
In short, what exotic ammo have you used?
_________________
Thanks,
David

True funny story: I got a handful of .45 Glaser Safety Slugs from Jack Cannon at the Second Chance Match (there was a sort of informal round table that met every year at Second Chance back then including Evan Marshal, Jack Robbins [USAF and father of the 9mm JTC in American Ammo], Alan Kulovitz [his photo of the guy shot about 32 times with a 9mm is famous], Jeff Chudwin, Mas Ayoob, and quite a few of us lesser knowns).

At any rate I took these S.S. loads (which were all handloaded by Jack back then and were so hot they were scary) back to test them. I managed to spot a ground hog and spend almost 15 minutes belly crawling up a little hill in order to get really close and when I topped the hill he was about 5 yards away with his back to me. I thought, boy am I going to get splattered but I shot him anyway. To my utter amazement he just folded (I hit the spine) and examination revealed that the Safety Slug did not open at all but just acted like ball. And there I was waiting to be showered with groud hog... well never mind :smile:

Anyway, I have never known anyone who was involved in a Glaser shooting. The only reports I have seen are 3rd or 4th hand and not one has worked (which does not mean that there are not dozens of cases which have worked I just have not encountered them).

I did use the 9mm BeeSafe round in my "artificial torso" test which I will be writing up if I ever get time. The deepest partical penetrated 5", which was the equal of Cor-Bon 115gr. +P+ JHP

I don't have anything on BAT rounds. Seems I recall someone reporting that they were very erratic.. even in their velocity. Tom G. may know. I think that the Memphis PD recovered thousands of BAT rounds loaded in the mags of confiscated guns they took from a motorcycle gang. They had a 61mm Mortar also, wich I wager would have been pretty effective :smile:


I didn't know PMC made the "ThunderZap", which was Richard Davis' brainchild. They did do a pure copper hollow bullet but forget the name. I have a few somewhere around here. Weiged 66 gr. in .38 spl with a plastic base wad. Thurderzap was all lexan, if I recall.

I have some pure copper bullet loads with a plastic plug in the nose a friend gave me but I forget the commercial name. I chronoed one in .45 ACP - it went 2100 fps!!! Since I only have two more I have not fired them into anything to see what they would do. Don't know what it weighs but it is not much.

Years ago I took a .45 185 gr. truncatd cone bullet mold and cast bullets out of straight babbit... they went something like 152 grs. and I loaded them to about 1500 fps but I did not shoot any critters with them. That might actually make an interesting load. A sort of pre-expanded but non disentegrating .357

Food for thought,
Jim Higginbotham








<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jim Higginbotham on 2001-04-14 15:54 ]</font>

Several years ago, someone (who?) wrote an article for Combat Handguns about Glasers. They had actual shooting results, to include xrays of the wounds. All my stuff is packed up right now or I would try and find it. I used to carry Glasers in my j frame backup as I figured that if I needed it, it would be up close and personal. The Dept. outlawed them a few years ago.

Rob
_________________

I quit getting gun magazines, except for subscribing to one (whichever offers the cheapest subscription each year in order to just see what is going on news wise - and that is difficult to discern). Let me know if you find the article. If it was several years ago it could be Ed Sanow since he started out over there.

I hate to sound snobbish but it doesn't matter too much how many success stories Glasers produce since by design they won't penetrate more than 6" (and the reports I have seen show this is a maximum distance). Since, like Agent's Risner and Dove, your only good hit may have to get through an arm or other barrier I am not about to put anything in my pistol that will not penetrate a foot in the lab (experience tells me that such a load may not penetrate over 8 or 9" in real people or critters anyway).

I have inquired into several shootings in which the shooter placed his rounds well and did not stop his assailant. In most cases the cause proved to be lack of penetration rather than lack of "power" (whatever that is :smile: ).

Cordially,
Jim Higginbotham


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jim Higginbotham on 2001-04-15 21:10 ]</font>