[Biathlonman]

What do you use as your concealed carry gun when the full size gov't model is just to big, or you don't want to carry that extra weight. I need to get a gun to cover all those occasions when the larger gun just won't work. What do you use?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Biathlonman on 2001-05-30 17:12 ]</font>

 

[38 Super Combat Commander]

Just get a Commander!!!

 

[jm10mm]

A Craig Fantom F-15. Briley makes them now. Its a Cut down Caspian High cap aluminum frame and a slide between an officer and a commander. Mine is the original high cap version that holds 15 rounds of 9x23.

 

[Tom Givens]

I hesitate to even get into this, as I always make someone mad, but this is one of my pet peeves. WHEN is a 1911 too big, or WHEN is it "too much weight" when you are fighting for your life? That is what we carry a gun for, isn't it?
There are perhaps three days a year that I don't have a 1911 and 2 spare mags on me. (On those three days I am somewhere I cannot carry a gun at all, period, so I just carry a 642 .38 in a pocket.) :smile:
I have been in a number of "critical incidents", but I have never been in one that was scheduled in advance. I typically carry in a belt holster, but if more concealment is dictated, I just switch to an IWB rig. Same gun, just a more low profile holster. Then, if I need my gun, I'll have a decent gun to fight with (as handguns go).
There is simply no such thing as a "light duty" or "off duty" or "casual" gunfight. If you are enaged, you are 100% engaged. One cannot be partially murdered! If you are just going to the 7-11 for milk, and while there need to fight for your life, how is that any less demanding than at any other time?
This practice of carrying a light duty gun in "less threatening" situations is much like not carrying at all unless you expect to need the gun. If I knew, or even believed, I was going to need a gun in any particular time/place, I just wouldn't go there! The problem is, one cannot make an appointment for an emergency. In the words of John Farnam, "When you least expect it, you're elected!".
Rant mode off.

 

[Biathlonman]

Well Tom I agree with you 100%. As you say I plan to always have the 1911 on me, but as you also mentioned I will be spending most of my time where one "can't have a gun" (ie. college classroom). I guess when you mentioned the revolver, that was the answer to the question I was looking for :smile:.

I personally perfer IWB and plan to carry the 1911 for all but the most discreet occasions.

Thanks for your input! One can never be to careful!

 

[Chad Ward]

I agree completely with Tom. A 1911 is not too much gun when you need it. Then again, a Howitzer is not too much gun when you need one.

However, there are still some benighted places that don't issue concealed carry permits. And there are still very gun-unfriendly places to work. It's a matter of balance. We can't all move to Vermont and get jobs of our choosing. Yep, when I lived in SC and had a CCW, I carried a BHP.40 every day. Now that I live in Kansas -- with an absolute and abject dread of CCW -- I have to be much more circumspect. It's not a matter of the inconvenience of a large gun, it's a matter of increased concealment.

So if I were to carry (not that I would circumvent the law in any way), I'd go with a Mustang Pocketlite in a pocket holster or a Galco VIP briefcase with a Glock 23.

No, you can't schedule a gunfight, but you can minimize the chances of getting dinged on a misdemeanor unlawful possesion charge by being careful about what/when/where you carry a gun. And if you need it, you'd better be f'ing sure you can put a several rounds in a 4" circle at 10 yards in less than a second or two.

Carrying a sub-caliber pistol means that you have to be extremely diligent about practice and shot placement. If you can't draw from concealment and put two rounds in the head box of an IDPA target at 7 yards in less than a second and a half, then look into a better method of concealment or more range time.

Please note: I am not advocating carrying when you lawfully cannot. However, there are circumstances that may change a person's ability to effectively conceal a large handgun. Carrying a gun every day is a major pain in the ass. Most folks who get a CCW don't (sadly) actually carry every day. It requires and adjustment in clothing, comfort and awareness. You should make sure you're willing to make those sacrifices before carrying. Remember, you are carrying a gun to save your life - nothing else. If you absolutely can't carry a large caliber handgun (not just because it's too heavy or too inconvenient), then consider a smaller gun. Just keep in mind that you'd better be really damn good with it.

Chad
Chad

 

[Captain]

Try a Commander sized gun, a lightweight would be even better. I think you'll shoot it better and it feels better to me. It has a better balance and the difference in cycling time makes the recoil feel a bit different. I've carried a Baer concept X for several years and really like this size gun.

 

[buzz_knox]

When I don't carry my Kimber, I carry either a Glock 30 or a HK P7.

 

[Biathlonman]

Thanks for all the replys and by all means keep them coming! I. like so many of you perfer the 1911 to about all other types of handguns and plan to have one on me whenever possible, but I am in the pursuit of the little brother/back-up gun and you all have helped a great bit. I am leaning toward something in the Glock line, probably either 26 or 36. I have yet to see a 36 in person, but expect it to be much like the Glock 19 in outside dimensions.

The pros of the 36 would be ammo compatibility with the 1911 as I have the equipment to reload .45. Cons would be limited ammo compacity for the size compared to other calibers.

The pros of the 26 would be size, weight, and the fact that I have multiple 9mm Glock high caps that would allow one to have a great deal of money on hand in a reload.

I welcome your thoughts, and I am certainly not limited to only Glocks, so suggestions are welcome! :smile:

 

[Carlos M. Castillo]

I have to agree with Tom carry the biggest caliber you can.
A light weight commander or similar 1911 will be thinner than almost any other fullsize pistol.
My favorite is a Star Pd ( aluminum frame 4" bbl 6 rounds) or a colt commander in either a VM-2 from Sparks or an Alessi Watch Six which is a very thin holster.
Get a quality Belt and holster and try some of your friend guns to see ehat works for you. The glock 45's are thicker than a 1911.

 

[Biathlonman]

Well the commander is sorta a moot point for me. I perfer IWB holsters so the commander is no easier to hide then the government model...

 

[RMLamey]

I carry on the hip, outside the pants, so for me a commander is perfect. Anything shorter is blasfemey!!!!!!!!! :lol:

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Chad Ward is right about the need to practice with "sub-calibers," although I think it would be more appropriate to say with smaller guns and smaller calibers that are not normally carried. Technically, even the 1911 in .45 is a sub caliber, just one of the bigger ones. If you carry an alternate gun sometimes, you need to practice with it until you are proficient. Of course there is little chance you will need it, but if you do, you absolutely have to deliver your shots on target and not somewhere else.

 

[Mute]

A Govt. is not comfortable for me in a IWB, but I've had good luck with a Commander sized gun. It does work for me as a four season gun. However, everyone is correct in that you'll have to be selective in your choice of close and gear you use for carrying.

 

[GLV]

I always think of the interviews done by Rich or one of his guys, with shootees. I cannot remember one who could say that he thought he would be shot on the day he was--shot.

When I cannot carry a gun, I carry a Kel Tec 9MM with one extra magazine, in a pocket holster. Most of the time the P11 is my backup gun, to right now a BHP, but usually a Commander.

 

[Jake Salyards]

This is a good topic and a real can of worms. I want to open it a little further. I am speaking here only of what I have found to be true, if you do not agree with me more power to you, you are protecting your own life and should do that however you feel is best. With that said I found myself in an alarming trend. At first I thought a 9mm glock was a good carry gun (and it is), but then I figured why not get one of those nifty SW airweights and carry that? So I did. My logic was that I probably wouldn't need the gun but it was nice to have something on me anyway just in case. I had forgotten that if I ever did need a gun I would need one that could deal a decisive blow and not just one that could make a loud noise. I took this another mental step and actually thought of getting one of those neat 22 walther TPH's and carrying that. Had sights all picked out and everything... Then I had an interesting conversation. I am active duty navy, this took place about 5 years ago when I was in the Defense Language Institute in Monterey. We have a lot of SEALS roll through there and I was talking about guns with one of them. I asked him what kind of guns he had? He told me he just had one at home, a glock 21. I asked him why just one and he said that if he only had one then he could only practice with one and he'd be real good with it. I asked him why .45? (This is his actual answer, I apologize for the abruptness of it "Because I shot some guys with 9mm and they all kept coming, I shot a guy with a 45 and it dropped him like a sack of shit."

So that decided caliber for me. I now think that all guns are fine and interesting tools, but the only ones I want for defense are .357, 10mm, 45 and like powered rounds. I like the 45 but that is very subjective. I also feel that the ability to place hits is more important than the caliber. For that matter I feel that the ability to sense that something is wrong ahead of time is better than all the above put together. I am still working to develop those skills.

Now, finally, to answer your question: I have nothing against back up guns. If you carry one then more power to you. My thoughts are that if it isn't a large caliber pistol that I would be better off with an ASP baton or a large flashlight. Here is my logic on this: Criminals are not brave and they are not looking for a fight, not a fair one anyway. If they come at me it is pretty good bet they are in a group. Cowards feel safer in a group and criminals are cowards. If I have a .22 or even a .38 I can do some damage, but I doubt the ability of these guns to take away a criminals ability to hurt me or my family. If I ever have to shoot someone I figure that a .45 with 9 rounds is good for 3 guys maximum. I worry about being able to reload fast enough with a 1911. With a 5 shot j-frame I figure I can deal with one or maybe two bad guys. The people I see that look like they would maim me for 10 dollars are usually traveling in groups of at least 3, usually 4 or more. I would never shoot someone to kill them out of spite. What I mean by that is that my goal is to remove the criminals ability to harm me. It does not help me if he dies 2 days later, or an hour later or even 3 minutes later. My goal is to remove him from the fight so he can not hurt me or my family any more RIGHT NOW. So, for me the answer is that I feel I can do that better with a large flashlight or mace or an ASP than I can with a .22 or .25 or 32 or .380.

Do I want to get shot with one of those guns? No. But I do think I could still cut someone up pretty badly after they shot me with it. I might die anyway, but what do I have to lose by continuing the attack at that point. I am angry and still very mobile and able to inflict damage. So for me, and I am only speaking for me, I prefer a second large bore handgun or a mechanical means of defense. For me it is not a knife because I do not know how to keep someone from taking it away from me and hurting me with it. I carry a folding knife but that would be way down low on my list of options. If I am attacking with a knife it means I am running away and someone tackles me and wants to still fight and I have no other means of resistance.

For me the best back up gun would probably be the glock 36. It is slim and has no manual safety on it. I can work it simply with either hand.

But, I am a civilian. I avoid danger when I can. If I was a police man I would carry two or even 3 guns on me if I could arrange it. Anyway, I would rather use up my 1911 and transfer to a collapseable baton than switch to a mousegun.

Okay, that was long. Sorry. I am now putting on my asbestos long underwear... Okay, gentleman - have at me!

Good shooting. Jake

 

[Ironside]

If I were you, I recomend a G32 or G36 (IWB), Walther PPKS or 2" J-frame .38 w/+P's in your Boot & a good quality Tacticle folder 3.5" to 4" Blade..........

 

[nr123]

I agree with Tom and others on this topic. In my area, we have had a number of home invasions by armed intruders. A couple of weeks ago, a man armed with a machete came into Wednesday night services at a local church. You NEVER know when you might need your gun.
When I need a lighter, smaller gun, I carry my Kimber PRO CDP (aluminum frame, 4" bbl, and full size grip. I refuse to leave home with anything smaller than my S&W mdl 642, and I don't feel comfortable then.

 

[GLV]

The often missed advantage of a second gun is a second shooter. the ability to hand a trained, gunless person your backup gun could be invaluable. I like the Kel Tec 9MM in that roll, 11 rounds of GAS or CorBon, easy to shoot, no manual safties, night sights, etc. Two shooters can be better than one. GLV