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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is my first post, so who the heck am I? I am a father, a husband and an active duty E-6 US Navy Russian Linguist and Biological Weapons specialist. I go to the former Soviet Union and interpret for guys getting rid of weapons and production facilities. Fourth kid on the way. Worked at a gun store for 3 years and also the associated outdoor shooting range. We had practical shoots once a month and I shot in them. Sadly, that was over 10 years ago and that was the last practical shooting I have had the opportunity to do. I PCS to Texas soon and hope to attend thunder ranch and come up to speed. I enjoy reading historical works and watching the history channel when my kids aren't booting me off the TV to watch a disney movie. Mainly, when I'm not deployed I enjoy just walking to the park with my kids and watching them run and play while I stroll my youngest around. End of my life's story, just thought you may want to know who you're reading.

Here's my question: For a 1911 (a baer TRS specifically) which is the best mag to use for reliablility. I have heard all kinds of different stuff from what I consider to be pretty well informed sources. Wilson 8 rounders, Wilson 7 rounders, CMC mags, Metalform mags, only colt factory mags with the rampant pony on them... Leave the springs in them, replace the springs with wolff +10% immediately.... I am more than a little confused. Cost is not the issue here, I just want something that will work, just the same way I'll take a 1911 that shoots 5" from a rest but works every time over a 1" gun that isn't totally reliable. (I know, you want both, so do I). So, right now I am thinking that metalform 7 round mags may be the way to go. I want to buy about 10 new quality mags and I would appreciate some help to point me in the right direction. Can someone out there help me please? Thank you.

Another question: Base pads or not?

Bonus question: Carry ammo for this 5" steel gun? I'm leaning toward 230 GS, 230 HS or just plain ball. Comments?

I thank you for your time gentleman (and ladies as appropriate).
Jake
 

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Hi Jake!
Wilson 7 or 8 rounders, is there really anything else?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Mr. Jacobson has written a fair amount stating that the wilson 8 round mags are not to be trusted. I further believe that the FBI spec'd out the bureau model with 7 round wilson mags. Massad Ayoob has written several times that 8 round 1911 mags are not to be trusted. I also understand that seven round mags for officers model frames are fine. I, too, have never had a bad experience with an 8 round wilson magazine, but I'd rather have only seven rounds and know that the mag is reliable than have to worry about the mag failing. The thunder ranch special that I'm getting comes with 3 baer magazines, does anyone know the scoop on these? Good or bad? I know that they are comparable to wilsons as far as price. But the metalform 7 round mags cost half as much and as I understand it they are more reliable than the wilsons. So, we have two votes of confidence for wilson 8 round mags. Fair enough, I would like to concur with you, but I am wary of this "free lunch" extra round; any other opinions? Also, I thank you for your posts and your advice gentlemen. Jake Salyards
 

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Welcome home. Lot's of competitive shootin' goin' on here in the Lone Star State.

I can only relate my experience regarding magazines. I respect Teddy Jacobson and the others who post here, but here's what I experienced with various magazines.

NO PROBLEMS at all with Wilson 8 round, Shooting Star, McCormick 8 round, stock Colt or Metalforms.

From 1980 to 1987 I shot a lot. Counting by the reloads I cranked out for .45 and .38 Super it was over 160,000 rounds. 100,000 through one of my 5" Modified Colts.

Once the guns were set up properly, and discounting one bad Metalform I had no malfunctions or failures to feed at all, ever, unless I had extractor problems. Even then, It was not the magazines.

Pistols included 5" with bushing, 5" with bull barrel, 5" carry comp., 6" compensated game gun and a .38 super game gun.

(Recently had a series of failures to lock the slide open on the last shot. Finally discovered that the slot cut in the slide stop was slightly tight where it pops up into the slide. An easy fix, not magazine related.):)

Regarding carry ammo. Several folks mention loads using Speer Gold Dot JHP, mostly in 230 grain as being excellent. Black Hills, Georgia Arms, Pro-Load and Speer produce loads with this bullet. I use the Pro Load with Gold Dot 230 JHP. You can check on all via their web sites.

_________________
"Stripping motivated people of their dignity and rubbing their noses it is a very bad idea."

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: tonerguy on 2001-06-10 02:57 ]</font>
 

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I prefer the Wilson-Rogers #47, 7 round magazines. They can be easily disassembled for cleaning, and I believe that the design of the follower ensures good reliability.

They are completely reliable in my Govt. Model and Combat Commander.

I recently acquired some of the #47CB magazines. These hold 7 rounds, have a low-profile, steel baseplate, and are black.
These #47CB's, in my opinion, are better for carry.

http://www.wilsoncombat.com/accessories/magazines.asp

-Mk.IV



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mark IV Series 80 on 2001-06-10 03:35 ]</font>
 

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Jake,

The general consensus is the Wilson mags, in case you can't tell :wink: Everyone I know
has had nothing but good luck with them,
even the eight rounders.

Biowar expert eh? I just got done reading "Biohazard" by Ken Alibek. I'm
sure you are probably familiar with him,
he was the former head of Biopreparat, the
Soviet agency that was responsible for
their weapons program, until he defected
to the US. Pretty scary stuff to read really. Antibiotic resistant strains of
smallpox and anthrax :eek: among other things. The amount of this stuff that
they stockpiled is truly mindboggling!

Also, check your private msg's Jake :grin:
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I thank you for the posts. I also believe wilson makes great magazines. I guess my queston is more one of 7 vs 8 round mags. I called thunder ranch on friday and got an answering machine. I apologized for bothering them but said I had a question about magazines, and stated what it was. I also took them up on the offer for a brochure. I left my e-mail address and said that if someone could just send me a one line suggestion on mags I would really appreciate it. Today at about noon the phone rings. We have caller i.d. and I see that it is thunder ranch calling me...., it's not only thunder ranch calling me, it's Heidi Smith calling me to talk about magazines. I sure hope I can attend that school someday. She was a great lady and really helpful. BTW - she too said that wilson combat mags are good ones. She did say that she and Clint use the 7 round mags from Baer and wilson. She said the base pad should be as small as possible because they tend to get hung up on things. Well, that's it for my info to share. If anyone else has stuff to put out I would enjoy hearing it. I'm about to order 5-10 magazines and I want to make an informed decision. A couple of hundred bucks is a lot of money to me, so I want to get it right the first time. Thanks fellas (and ladies) Jake

PS - I actually met Alibek a few times and spent some social time with him, as well as Gennady Lepeshkin, also in the biohazard book. If you like that try "The coming plague", it is a non-fiction book written in laymans terms that will bring you fully up to speed on the whole bio-warefare and virus thing. J-
_________________
A bad attitude or unsettled mind will destroy focus, guaranteeing failure regardless of training and preparation.
- Mark F. Twight, "Extreme Alpinism"

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jake Salyards on 2001-06-10 21:16 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jake Salyards on 2001-06-10 21:24 ]</font>
 

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Welcome Jake...I've had get luck with the Cor-Bon 230 JHP in my steel 4" 45...I use LSWC 2oogr for practice and have been working up some alternative 185 and 200 gr Hornady XTP JHPs...I've some posts in the reloading section and there are many, many good posts and tests in the "Pass the Ammo" section as well! Take a look around and enjoy yourself...More the Merrier and it's growin' avery day...Once again...Welcome to the Fray, it's good to have you...:wink:
 

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Hi Jake! You might have read this on one of the other threads, but when I talked to Bill Laughtridge (sp) at Cylinder & Slide in Nebraska several years ago,he also recommended only 7 round magazines for reliability in 1911's & clones. It's an easier choice with glocks...:roll: Mike
 

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Jake Salyards wrote:
A couple of hundred bucks is a lot of money to me, so I want to get it right the first time.
Keep an eye on Wilson's website, they had some 'reconditioned' mags for sale a couple months back, 7's, 8's, and 10's for like $15/ea.

Yup, Clint & Hiede advocate the use of 7's, and I have used Wilson 7's almost exclusively since 1984, until a couple years ago when I started using the 8's, and have since upgraded most all my Wilsons to 8's since I have found them to be utterly reliable for me. I'd be willing to bet that if a gun won't run with a Wilson 7, then it just won't run, but I am sure that there's an occassional gun that won't run with 8's, but works fine with 7's, so you be the judge. I like having the extra round, and keep my mags tuned for each gun they will be used with, and TRY not to interchange them, as much as possible.

I noticed in your first post that you said "Price was no object", and that you were an E6. Now I KNOW you have had a few raises in the last year or so, and an E6 is making much more than when I was in back in 89, but then you also amended that by saying that a couple hundred bucks IS alot of money for you... I was gonna say, investing $2k into a TRS and a bunch of mags, that 'Navy Pay' is getting MUCH better, especially with a family :grin:

Of course, without the family, saving money on 'Navy Pay' was sometimes easy. I do remember coming home from a cruise, and having 6 or 7 checks in my rack drawer, always made it nice for those special Home Electronics purchases in the PI :wink:
 
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I have used the 8 round Wilson mags sice they came out and I have never had an issue.
I did read Teddy's post and I have ordered some 7 round Wilson mags to compare an examine them.
I generally replace my gun springs every three months and mag springs every six months and I never have malfunctions/issues on that plan.
 

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On 2001-06-13 11:38, David DiFabio wrote:
I have used the 8 round Wilson mags sice they came out and I have never had an issue.
I did read Teddy's post and I have ordered some 7 round Wilson mags to compare an examine them.
I generally replace my gun springs every three months and mag springs every six months and I never have malfunctions/issues on that plan.
David... Funny you should mention changing springs... Last year, I finally decided to change the springs in 4 of the Wilson 47's I had been using since the mid-late 80's, and while they had not seen more than 2000 rounds each, I figured it was just good 'maintenance'. They had been packed away, unloaded for a few years when I finally dug them out, and upon removing and comparing the springs with some new Wilson's (supplied by Wolff) I noticed no difference in length, or coil distances.

I still have them around for 'spares', but never had a failure due to the springs.

I will offer this... I would add Floorplates to the list of things to cycle out, as I have had more Floorplates on my older mags fail than springs. I would venture that the Older Wilson design that was corrected in the early 90's solved this problem. The older design had a short lip on one side, and the full length lip on the other. Most people probably have the newer design, and possibly, the issue is not as serious, I can't say, I haven't had one of the newer design plates fail yet, but when doing maintenance replacements, it's probably a good thing to add along with the spring change.

The newer alloy floorplates are slowly finding their way into my various sets of mags, with the 'Primary' ones receiving the priority, and I feel that with the older Wilson's, the floorplates would be the prime concern.
 
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I started doing the spring changes as I cracking 10mm Colt slides from excessive shooting/high power loads and then it moved over to mags and I have just kept the habit.
I don't know if it is still necessary, but my guns run perfectly and springs are dirt cheap.

_________________
Think, Plan, Train, Be Safe.
Thanks,
David

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: David DiFabio on 2001-06-13 13:23 ]</font>
 

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On 2001-06-13 13:23, David DiFabio wrote:
and springs are dirt cheap.
Agreed... For the money, and the benefits, it just makes good sense, although I have also been known to live by the adage that "If it ain't broke, don't fix it", this is something that is cheap, and simple, and could make the difference in a lifesaving moment.

One thing I forgot to add... While I have preferred to stay with Wilsons for primary carry since the 80's, I have used Metalforms on the range with decent results, but in a low-cost alternative, would probably lean towards Mec-Gars. IMHO, they are a good quality, low cost option.

I do prefer removable bases over fixed/welded bases for easy maintenance, and the fact that I have had Colt manufactured mags pop weld, and dump the guts on the ground at my feet. While the same can happen with a removable base, they can be corrected much easier than re-welding the base.
 

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I'll restate the obvious ... Wilson 47Ds are the standard. Logic may dictate that the 7 rounders enjoy a greater margin of statistical reliability, but I've yet to have a problem -- any problem -- with my 8 rounders.

I don't care as much for the plastic basepads, and usually replace them with the low profile aluminum optionals.

Chuck
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
-JayDee, you are very right about the money aspects of being enlisted. It is a job you have to do for the pride of it. I do not make very much money. What I have done is to sell of a few other "good" guns in order to get one really nice one. An AR-15, a springfield and I am about to sell off a NIB sig P225 with 4 mags and a galco iwb. Also, since I am about to PCS (move) I decided to sell off all my Y2k panic ammo also. I didn't want to ship it and didn't have room in my car for driving it to Texas. (going to instruct at the cryptology school at Goodfellow AFB). So, I was stacking up a good little pile of money. With the 4th child on the way I knew that money is going to be even tighter. I spoke with my wife about it and she said it had taken me years to save the money for all those individual guns so she thought I should use it all and not have to give any back to the family. With that said, I am going from owning many "good" guns to now just owning 3. A ruger MKII pistol for plinking, a vang comp tactical shotgun I found NIB with all the cool stuff for 600 bucks; and now this TRS. The reason that money is no object isn't because I have a lot of it, it's because I know I won't be able to buy anymore guns or mags for quite a while so I want to buy the best ones I can. I don't want to try to save 5 bucks on a 25 dollar investment only to find out a year later the whole thing doesn't work well anymore. Really, it's all Dane's fault. I have owned a few factory 1911's over the years, and I do shoot them better than other styles, but I had never even seen a "real" 1911 until I stumbled on his site. That pretty much lit the fires for the massive selling frenzy. If I had it my way I would have Dane build up one of his 1911's for me. But, first, I don't have the money to have it done right; and second, I would have nothing else to carry for the years it took to get it. The TRS was the very best compromise I could find that I could afford. Lastly, I have been engaging in a very bad habit of owning all these cool guns and not shooting them enough, because I was using all my available money to just try to trade up to cooler guns. I have come to the conclusion that my mindset and training are way more important than the type of gun I have or how cool it is. Having just one pistol and just one shotgun will help me to learn my weapon and encourage me to use my little bits of money to go out and shoot it. The only other thing that is high on my list of personal, selfish desires is to take it to Thunder Ranch or Gunsite and learn how to use it properly. For now I do all the reading I can and make my practice count as best I can. Anyway, long post, sorry.
 

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My baby is a customized (The Action Works)series 80 1911. I've got 5 Shooting star 8rd mags and one Colt 7 rd mag. Been using these 6 mags for aprox 5 years now. (rotate every 3 months along with carry ammo) Never had any kind of malfunction with the pistol or mags.

My carry ammo was 230gr Hydro-shoks but I've switched over to Pro-Load's 230gr +P Gold Dot's. Feeds/functions flawlessly.

PI.......Been there done that both Clark/Subic USAF/SF (E-6/AD)
 
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