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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Was it despite DA or because of DA, or was it irrelevant? in another way, is da just a marketing gimmick? (Some contend, to be fair, I used to be one of those.)

I used to carry 1911A1 concealed, condition one, in this great state of Oregon until one event. For some reason, by the time I took the pistol out of holster IWB at the end of the day, the safety was off, condition zero.

Needless to say, I was very scared. I field stripped the gun and detailed -checked the safety. Nothing wrong with it. I took it to the smith, who found nothing wrong with it. For those who think it's due to friction between the holster and waist band, I had had my trouser custom-made with the holster inside the waist band (www.ravistailor.com, a great company to deal with, and a lot less expensive than your local tailors).

I used to think DA was (using a very well-worn phrase) an ingenious solution to a non-existent problem.

To be fair, the same thing can happen to a DA pistol. Still, given a choice, I would rather it happen to a DA pistol rather than a SA.

I still shoot 1911 on weekend plinking. If anyone thinks I am talking "Roses", just give me pre-mostened tissue from cottonel.
 

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So the safety was off, Had you deactivated the grip safety? no,was your finger on the trigger no, well then it was still safe. If was a 80 series with firing pin block it was safe 2nd time.and don t we have a 1/2 cock feature also ment to catch the hammer if it should accidently fall. was your pistol in a holster that covered the trigger as a proper holster should?If so guess you safe again. As you see everthing was all right. Gun smith could tightned up safety if works that easy. I carry 1911cocked&locked and a Colt Mustang in a pocket holster the same way. there safe. I also own and carry a PPK/S during warm weather or when in low threat area. I like the looks and the feel of a PPK just not real thrilled with DA first shot and my trigger is reduced from factory pull weight. Still to long and heavy compared to a SA. Both work its just what your comfortable with.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Ditto, what you said is all true. So how come no one is advising to carry 1911 in condition zero?
 

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Mr. Kim,

In my limited opinion, too many folks opt for manual safeties that are way to bulky and way too easy to disengage in the hopes of some supposed edge in getting off the first shot. All for naught, if the first shot is a Negligent Discharge down one's hip. Unfortunately in combination with this tendency, all too many holsters are really ill designed for carrying a 1911 cocked and locked.

I carry hammer down on a loaded chamber sometimes, for example, when the weapon is just tucked into the waistband, but it's probably less safe than a PROPERLY SET UP 1911 carried cocked and locked since a blow on the hammer at the right angle could discharge a round.

I do like my PPK's and after some use and effort, came to feel comfortable with a S&W 660 that I carried in a jean front pocket under a guayabera in LATAM and CENTAM for a while. Still like the PPK because of it's reliability, balance, and accuracy, but then I don't own PPK's made after about 1968 or so and none made in the USA. The PPK is not often carried, but is reserved for certain occasions when, for me nothing else works as well, for example with a dinner suit, mess jacket, or dress blues in one of Seventree's old SMRSH rigs. Now I'm experimenting with one of Lou Alessi's IP rigs with the Talon clip---after many years of sneering at anything but a solid holster loop to secure the holster in the waistband. Lou's rig, as should be expected, seems to work quite well and actually, for me and my build, carries a PPK much more securely than a J-frame or Colt D.

It's a serious problem to master the DA then SA pull in a fast double tap, but it really can be done with a bit of time and effort. If you really carry the weapon constantly for extended periods with a fair bit of physical activity, there's much to be said for the DA first shot autoloaders. Still, it's easier to have a SA auto set up properly and select the right holster that doesn't allow the safety to be disengaged.

Hope this proves useful in your search for the weapon and mode of carry.
 

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Holsters and hardware seem to make the difference for me

Subject to revision with time and as the summer wears on - I currently find my Alessi IWB in which the sweat shield is molded about as tight as the rest of the holster relieves my concerns about wiping the safety off. For my money I want an appropriate sweat shield as part of the holster whether Alessi, Horseshoe or whatever maker. It's a package with not only a gun belt but the right undershirt and overshirt. Quite right about the tailoring too.

I've read what I took as hints from makers on this board, and no doubt elsewhere, that the actual safety hardware is a real consideration in molding the holster. I have no doubt a consideration in choosing the holster as well.

There are those, myself included, who do suggest carrying cocked and unlocked (for my money beats ambidextrous all hollow for weak hand and such when you really really mean weak hand) but not I think when concealed. I do know of at least one negligent discharge where the holstered 1911 was at just the right height for the hammer to catch the edge of a desk - and what did happen can't be impossible.

Then too dropping the hammer on a loaded chamber gets my full attention and a bit more in a 1911.

Long ago and far away I was quite content with a Model 39 for DA/SA but I was younger and quicker then myself. It does happen that whenever a substantially full size 1911 is inappropriate for carry I go with a double action, be it semiautomatic or revolver - sometimes I want something bigger too :wink:
 

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Why Walther?

Hmmm. Interesting question. I have two that I carry on a regular basis: a P5 Compact (SUPERB PISTOL!!) and a stainless PPK that is current at Dave Berryhill's being tweaked a little bit. My particular P5C was purchased used and has a very good trigger, both DA and SA. It is light, compact and carries very well. It also has Trijicon sights that hit right where they look, a rarity in my case. My PPK was also purchased used and has a SUPERB trigger for a PPK. That was it's major selling point. With Cor-Bon .380s. I don't feel TOO lightly armed... Why the Walthers in lieu of 1911s? Well, I DON'T carry them in lieu of 1911s. I also, on a regular basis, carry a Lightweight Officer's ACP (currently at Ted Yost's, so it is off the carry rotation at the moment), a Lightweight Commander in .38 Super and a couple different full-sized 1911s. I have no problem at all with cocked and locked. My 1911s are in good repair. I trust the design and the safety systems. Having said that, the P5C, the OACP and the Commander are my hand-down favorites due to their light weight. As much as I like the full-sized Government Model, by the end of the day, even in a correct holster, it is really doing a number on an already-screwed-up lower back. In my case, Light is Right.
 

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Notice that even Jeff Cooper likes the Walther

Not of course for duty but for sport. Over the years he has spoken very highly of the PPK and said he prefers the PP to the PPK/S.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Lucky you, I used to have a PPK/S when I was bitten by Bond bug, (a long time ago), sold it, its DA was just too much, even for self-defense shooting.
 

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Well Tony Kim you used to have a PPK/S but the DA trigger was just to much and you can t keep the safety on,a 1911A1. Well then what do you carry? Why are you on this board other than you want to up your post count. Iam not trying to be hate full just a question I love my Colts and carry one or more of them if Iam going to Lexington or Louisville but in a normal day the PPK/S fills my needs. What did you find that suits you for daily carry.
 

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The factory hammer spring on the series pp pistols is too heavy(20#s i think). I have replaced mine with Wolff 16# spring and both the pp & ppk function flawlessly. The DA is still plenty stiff, but it is much easier not to 'jerk' the fron sight off target, and the SA is really sweet if you miss with the DA. If you go that route, get the variety pack just in case the 16# is too light for your particular gun. I would also suggest a pp over the ppk or ppks, The extra half inch makes a huge difference in accuracy. You can find alot of German police trade ins for around $250 to $300. They are 30 yrs old and still shoot better than most small guns made today. I would'nt worry about the small caliber either, if you can place a .32 or .380 in a half dollar group at 15' (which these German Walther can do) what more do you need. Most small 9mm and .45's are hard to do that with, unless you spend big $$. And the fit and finish of these are hard to beat. :D
 
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