From my 5" Barsto/Bul Gov't model over the Oehler model 35p.
Silvertip 1,410 fps average, I have seen variances up to 1,440 fps and down to 1,390 fps.
Softpoint 1,430 fps average only tested five rounds, I don't purchase this ammo often as I use CP ammo for target shooting.
MagSafe 64 grain 2,400 fps only one round tested (no longer produced).
http://www.Classicpistol.com I am not sure that they sell the CP ammo line over the internet. I do not know what the single box price is but last time I purchased 5K rounds for about $9.00 a box.
What lot numbers are giving you those velocities?
At what tempature and distance to the chronograph are you getting those readings? Are those indoor or outdoor readings?
I'm now extremely curious as I have a lot of 9x23 shooters in the PA area and I have never heard of anyone using factory "box" ammo that achieves those velocities.
Winchester supplied me with cases of 9x23 ammo from '96 till '99. I chrono with a PACT, outdoors. The numbers are correct. White box is hotter by a fair margin (generally closer to 1500) than Silvertips, which generally hit 1450+ in a good barrel.
FYI and my libary, 1463 fps from a stock Colt and Silvertips, Nov. Dec 1997 Hangunning article by Dick Metcalf.
1580 from a Nowlin barrel and Silvertips CH Gary Paul Johnston May 1997.
1470 from Nowlin barrel and Silvertips Handgunning Wiley Clapp. (Same gun I suspect as Johnston's btw)
1393 from Silvertips in a Colt in G&A by Jan Libourel Oct '96.
1452 from Silvertips in a Nowlin barrel on a Wilson Super Grade Colt fired by Layne Simpson August '96 Shooting Times.
I have also supplied a couple of my customers with white box ammo to shoot major IPSC matches. All ran 180 power factor or better even with slightly shorter than 5" barrels.
This afternoon I was able to resolve my velocity lose problems, it seems the chamber on my Barsto was cut out of spec as I recieved a new one directly from Barsto on thursday as a "drop in", using this barrel I read 1440 fps from a fresh box of silvertips X923W and 1520 fps average from two seperate boxes of softpoint Q4304.
The silvertips are clocking 1460's and the SP's are pushing just over 1505fps from a stock Colt.
Dane, I think that you should point out that barrel heat is critical in how long a barrel will last in any giver situation. My 30-338 LR gun uses 70gns of powder to push a 190gn bullet down a 30 caliber hole and it lasts 1500rds. My 9x23 uses 10gn of powder to push a 125gn bullet down a 9mm hole. There is NO way that the 30cal should last longer than the 9mm unless you are heating the 9mm barrel to the point where the steel is losing significant surface strength and thus wearing faster. I remember you pointing this out in our discussion on the idpa list long ago. Just though it needed to be mentioned here. Semper Fidelis...Ken M
When and at what point do pistol barrels using high pressure cartridges start to shoot out or begin to degrade?
I am well aware that you can shoot a standard pressure 1911 with ball rounds literally forever, I have one that is well over the 50k mark..but I am quite curious as that 9x23 was not "that old".
Hi Peter! This is what I remember from PS as have not had time to look. Carbon steel barrels are for you M-16's, rock & roll guns,and mini guns, Stainless Steel will not hold up to the heat of rapid fire, but I doubt if we can shoot our pistols that fast. The best bench shooter has about ten barrels built for each year of shooting and uses the most accurate for the BIG SHOOTS like the Supper Shoot. They are shooting the 6mm ppc's hot and accuracy for consistant .10 to .20 groups at 100 and 200 yards can change about 600 rounds and loose a match. Needless to say the barrels are fine after that number of rounds, they just are not capable of consistant "Bug Eye" groups. The gunsmith I used said when he has the "range conditions" he can shoot 5 shots for the record in about 30 seconds with a 50 power scope and he has won some of the big shoots.
A friends 300 super magnum went from hits at 1000 yard plate to misses at 500 yards in about 600 - 700 rounds with 300 yard groups about the 6 to 8 inch range accourding to him.
I'm not sure who would have the information for pistol barrel life in carbon steel and stainless but would think poor care and cleaning would have the greatest effects ... Just my 2 cents worth ...Mike
My tests support Dane's experience with Winchester velocities.
I get 1,470 with little variation with the Winchester 124 gr. JFP and a bit less with the silver tip.
Dane and I corresponded a while back on hand loads... one thing I discovered early on is the fact you can safely load to rather higher velocities in 9x23. Using the 98 gr. bullet will allow VERY high velocities if you happen to belive light/fast is better.
My 9x23 has a Kart 9mm NM barrel cut with a new Clymer reamer by my gunsmith. It shoots 1500 fps with the Silvertip and 1520 with the whitebox. This is in Arizona with temps in the 80s to 90s. When the temps go over 100, the velocity goes up a bit, too.
I cautious about shooting out the throat on my barrel, too. But the pistol is a lot of fun to shoot . . .