Joined
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258 Posts
Does anyone know of a good source for Ranger SXT ammo? I've been buying it at the local gun show with reasonable success, but I need to get more, and the next show isn't 'til August.
--Mark
--Mark
Winchester Ranger SXT
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G
Guest
·MArk,
Do you mean the Winchester Ranger restricted ammo?
I assume you do and you are looking for the Ranger Talon.
Most of the larger Law Enforcement supply shops do and will sell you the ammo, also some distributors will sell it to you with an FFL. I do not want to post their names here as Winchester has a habit of enforcing their agreements on the distributors/dealers.
If you still cannot find it email me and I will respond.
Do you mean the Winchester Ranger restricted ammo?
I assume you do and you are looking for the Ranger Talon.
Most of the larger Law Enforcement supply shops do and will sell you the ammo, also some distributors will sell it to you with an FFL. I do not want to post their names here as Winchester has a habit of enforcing their agreements on the distributors/dealers.
If you still cannot find it email me and I will respond.
G
Guest
·Sam,
In truth their is such a small performance difference between various manufacturers ammo that with rare exception based on performance no ammo deserves to be labeled as special.
In the case of the Winchester Ranger line, several factors have lead Winchester to sell the ammunition only to LE Depts. requiring an official letterhead:
The first is that a great many of the loadings are in fact high pressure (+P+) loadings, to avoid the liability associated with these pressures and consumer pistols being damaged they sell it to LE agencies who are supposed to have modern firearms only in good condition, also the LE agency cannot sue the manufacturer for liability.
The second reason with the Ranger T is that it is the bullet designed by Alan Corzine formerly named the "Black Talon". After the long island railway shootings a great many politicians and news agencies labeled the subsonic talons as the "death" bullet.
Of course Winchester and we all knew better….
Winchester voluntarily withdrew consumer sales and offered the line in a new generic package as the Ranger SXT.
During the second generation of the Ranger SXT they developed a loading that was based on the consumer SXT bullet and labeled the Talon bullet the Ranger T.
Third,
One of the little known reasons is two fold, first the LE loadings use lower flash powder and in certain contract runs the bullets themselves are stamped for "easy" identification at the request of the issuing agency in the hope of easing bullet identification and ammo theft issues.
As to the question is the third/fourth generation Ranger Talon a superior product? Absolutely, it has become a truly remarkably well engineered bullet. It offer very good performance under a very wide range of circumstance and environment.
As always please use and rely on only the equipment you have personally tested for purpose and function.
In truth their is such a small performance difference between various manufacturers ammo that with rare exception based on performance no ammo deserves to be labeled as special.
In the case of the Winchester Ranger line, several factors have lead Winchester to sell the ammunition only to LE Depts. requiring an official letterhead:
The first is that a great many of the loadings are in fact high pressure (+P+) loadings, to avoid the liability associated with these pressures and consumer pistols being damaged they sell it to LE agencies who are supposed to have modern firearms only in good condition, also the LE agency cannot sue the manufacturer for liability.
The second reason with the Ranger T is that it is the bullet designed by Alan Corzine formerly named the "Black Talon". After the long island railway shootings a great many politicians and news agencies labeled the subsonic talons as the "death" bullet.
Of course Winchester and we all knew better….
Winchester voluntarily withdrew consumer sales and offered the line in a new generic package as the Ranger SXT.
During the second generation of the Ranger SXT they developed a loading that was based on the consumer SXT bullet and labeled the Talon bullet the Ranger T.
Third,
One of the little known reasons is two fold, first the LE loadings use lower flash powder and in certain contract runs the bullets themselves are stamped for "easy" identification at the request of the issuing agency in the hope of easing bullet identification and ammo theft issues.
As to the question is the third/fourth generation Ranger Talon a superior product? Absolutely, it has become a truly remarkably well engineered bullet. It offer very good performance under a very wide range of circumstance and environment.
As always please use and rely on only the equipment you have personally tested for purpose and function.
Joined
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258 Posts
I chose the Ranger SXT, on the advice of my instuctor, for my CCW carry ammo. One reason is that it is the ammo of choice for the department he works for. The argument there is that if I ever have to go to court and my choice of ammo comes up, I can use the "it's good enough for the local police, so why shouldn't I have the best?"
Let the police department's experts explain why they picked it...
I have the standard SXT (civilian), Ranger SXT and Ranger SXT +P loads for my 45. I was simply hoping to find more for my 9mm without waiting for the local gun show in August.
Let the police department's experts explain why they picked it...
I have the standard SXT (civilian), Ranger SXT and Ranger SXT +P loads for my 45. I was simply hoping to find more for my 9mm without waiting for the local gun show in August.
David (or anyone else who can help),
I am abit confused as to the legality of the Winchester Ranger ammunition. A friend of mine purchased some from a local police supply store. This is the Winchester Ranger .45 ACP ammo (RA45T). I assume this is the Talon bullet design. The box is marked for law enforcement only; however, he is not law enforcement.
I guess what I'm getting at is that is the Law Enforcement only marking something that Winchester is imposing to protect themselves or is it a real law? My friend is under the impression that it is completely legal for him to buy and carry the ammo (he has a CCW permit) and I am considering testing some myself for reliabilty and later carry if its good to go.
Hope this makes since...thanks in advance....BTW...long time reader here but this is my first post.....nice site....I recognize afew names from 1911Forum who have helped me out immensly in the past.
Take care,
NMS (nick)
I am abit confused as to the legality of the Winchester Ranger ammunition. A friend of mine purchased some from a local police supply store. This is the Winchester Ranger .45 ACP ammo (RA45T). I assume this is the Talon bullet design. The box is marked for law enforcement only; however, he is not law enforcement.
I guess what I'm getting at is that is the Law Enforcement only marking something that Winchester is imposing to protect themselves or is it a real law? My friend is under the impression that it is completely legal for him to buy and carry the ammo (he has a CCW permit) and I am considering testing some myself for reliabilty and later carry if its good to go.
Hope this makes since...thanks in advance....BTW...long time reader here but this is my first post.....nice site....I recognize afew names from 1911Forum who have helped me out immensly in the past.
Take care,
NMS (nick)
Joined
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258 Posts
I know of no law that prohibits you from possessing the Ranger Ammo. The boxes I have are marked "Law Enforcement Ammunition", but don't say law enforcement only...
Check your local laws...
--Mark
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MADman on 2001-06-07 11:58 ]</font>
Check your local laws...
--Mark
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MADman on 2001-06-07 11:58 ]</font>
They are perfectly legal to own. The 'Law Enforcment Only' bit serves basically two purposes.
1) As Mr DiFabio mentioned, several of the Winchester round are '+P+' levels. I think they drive their 230gr .45 985fps. So they keep it out of old guns and avoid civil liability.
2) Marketing: it makes the cops feel special (no joke).
Personally, I think Winchester SXT and Ranger-T are some of the best bullets out there. Do you lose anything without having the sharp petals? Who knows, but they can't hurt. Flash is a worthwhile consideration; though the SXT line is purported to have very low flash already, it is certainly worth looking for any improvment.
Anyone with a 9mm should check out the Winchester 9mm Ranger SXT +P+, as it is almost universally accepted as the finest 9x19mm round there is. Mr DiFabio could speak more on that.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: telackey on 2001-06-07 12:21 ]</font>
1) As Mr DiFabio mentioned, several of the Winchester round are '+P+' levels. I think they drive their 230gr .45 985fps. So they keep it out of old guns and avoid civil liability.
2) Marketing: it makes the cops feel special (no joke).
Personally, I think Winchester SXT and Ranger-T are some of the best bullets out there. Do you lose anything without having the sharp petals? Who knows, but they can't hurt. Flash is a worthwhile consideration; though the SXT line is purported to have very low flash already, it is certainly worth looking for any improvment.
Anyone with a 9mm should check out the Winchester 9mm Ranger SXT +P+, as it is almost universally accepted as the finest 9x19mm round there is. Mr DiFabio could speak more on that.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: telackey on 2001-06-07 12:21 ]</font>
G
Guest
·Guys,
Just to clarify, the Ranger T line does in fact have the Talons.
As to ammo restrictions only armor piercing and ammo with a speficially hardned core or solid jacket capable of piercing armor is restricted.
Their are restrictions on possesion and distribution of such ammo by both the ATF and at the state level.
The LE designation on the box is strictly for liability reasons, any dealer can resell the ammo.
Just to clarify, the Ranger T line does in fact have the Talons.
As to ammo restrictions only armor piercing and ammo with a speficially hardned core or solid jacket capable of piercing armor is restricted.
Their are restrictions on possesion and distribution of such ammo by both the ATF and at the state level.
The LE designation on the box is strictly for liability reasons, any dealer can resell the ammo.
G
Guest
·Photo of the Ranger T .45acp non +P used in the "real world".
This photo is of two bullets from two seperate incidents, the bullet on the left was used against in a direct frontal shot against a very large, muscular, and violent attacker armed and intent on killing a deputy sherrif armed with a Sig P220, only one round was fired and the bullet came to rest under the skin outside of the rib cage, the attacker expired instantly.
The bullet on the right was used by a Highway Patrol Officer armed with a Glock model 21 who was thrown backward over a guard rail and in the process of being pummeled in her face when she opened fire and of the seven rounds fired this one made contact and entered through the neck, travled up the spine into the brain and came to rest inside the attackers skull and did not exit.
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This photo is of two bullets from two seperate incidents, the bullet on the left was used against in a direct frontal shot against a very large, muscular, and violent attacker armed and intent on killing a deputy sherrif armed with a Sig P220, only one round was fired and the bullet came to rest under the skin outside of the rib cage, the attacker expired instantly.
The bullet on the right was used by a Highway Patrol Officer armed with a Glock model 21 who was thrown backward over a guard rail and in the process of being pummeled in her face when she opened fire and of the seven rounds fired this one made contact and entered through the neck, travled up the spine into the brain and came to rest inside the attackers skull and did not exit.
As an FYI. A friend of mine working in the LAPD as a firearms instructor stated that for the officers who do use a .45 pistol, the ammo issued is Winchester Ranger T. He stated the reason given was that Winchester tested out to be the most consistent. I wish I had aske him to clarify what they meant by consistent. Anyway, they also liked Federal Hydra-shok and felt that Remington Golden Saber were the least consistent.
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