[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. To begin with, I've been shooting this stuff in 9mm and .45ACP since the early '80s...if not earlier; I cannot remember, but am quite familar with it.

In 9mm, some of my previously-purchased USA 115 gr 9mm FMJ's average velocity was 1161 ft/sec out of a Browning HP and very close to the same from a CZ75. Some new Magtech 115 gr ball from the same BHP averages 1167 ft/sec.

Today, I went shooting and decided on the SIG P210 as I've not shot it in a good while. I fired a box of the Magtech with
no surprises no problems. Expecting the same thing with the Winchester (You'll note how close the previously
chronographed velocities were), I was quite surprised to note quite an increase in recoil! Now, I realize that we are "talking
9mm" here, but the increase in recoil was substantial. l did not have my chronograph with me at the range. Being quite sure that this felt like Plus P or Nato loads, I checked the cases but there was no cross in the circle indicating Nato loading, nor was there the Plus P stamp. Neither did the box mention anything like this. I did note that the box says "Q4172" on it. My friend said that such was the military designation. I do not know.

I'll chronograph it to be sure and am not particularly concerned, but does anyone know if Winchester's loading overruns of the Nato stuff in non-Nato-marked cases or if they've just hopped up their standard velocity USA load?

I will chronograph the stuff to know exactly what's going on, but wondered if anyone else has experienced this or has any insight in this?

Best.

 

[Blackjack]

Stephen

Doubt if this is alot of help, but I bought some cases of that from Eric The Ammoman last year and the cardboard cases had the U.S. Ordinance Dept. markings, Q4172, and the Flaming Grenade. I think it may have been Federal Agency rather then Military, but that`s IMO.

I find it much hotter then the 115 gr. Federal FMJ as well.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Blackjack on 2001-05-21 22:38 ]</font>

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. Thanks, Blackjack. I'll get around to chronographing it sooner or later and will report back. Thanks again.

Best.

 

[gyp_c2]

How did the fired cases look Stephen? Primers?

 

[Guest]

Stephen,
Q4172 is the designation for Winchester White box "USA" target ammo.
WNXA is the designation for Law Enforcement ammo, WMXN is the designation for Winchester Government Contract ammunition.
The Q4172 is rated at 1,190fps with 362 ft.lbs of energy from a 4" barrel by Winchester, this ammo is readily available and is not NATO spec.

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. Thanks, Mr. DiFabio. I appreciate it. I'm still going to chronograph it against some of the older USA I've got as it felt considerably "hotter" than the previously chronographed Magtech in the same bullet weight.

Again, I appreciate your insight and information.

Best.

 

[Bud B Green]

Hello Stephen,

Outta curiosity, how often do you shoot / get to the range?

Bud

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello, Mr. Green. Usually once to twice per week for about 3 hrs at a time. Best.

 

[Randall_1611]

I have seen a box of 115 grain Winchesters that looked "old" and had the no. Q4174 on the end flap. Any idea what this is? Mike

 

[Guest]

Do you have the part#?

 

[Randall_1611]

That's the only information that I had from my note. Mike

 

[MichaelOrick]

May have changed the powder load? That could give it more oomph on your end w/o changing the velocity/pressure much, if any?

I think the Q4146 was a +P load used by NYPD?

Want some good, cheap, hot FMJ/JHP 9mm loads, try Fiocchi. Loaded to CIP specs, they have a max pressure of 39,200 psi, above the SAAMI +P limit of 38,500 psi. From a G17, BHP, Beretta 92 about the 115 FMJ, 115 JHP and 123 FMJ/TC "Combat" load had about the same velocity as the M882 NATO, Rem 115 +P+ JHP (expanded the same too BTW, about .61).

 

[Guest]

Q4174.
Winchester 115gr FMJ.
Ballistic Coefficent 0.1396
Manufactured March 1991-June 1993.
Muzzle Velocity 1,190 fps
Energy 362 ft.lbs.

Replaced by Q4172.