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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been testing out the new Winchester USA white box JHP loads in .40S&W and .45acp, and I am impressed. The 180gr. .40 load costs $13.96 for a box of 50 rounds, while the 230gr. .45 load sells for $16.96 for a box of 50 rounds. Prices are from Wal-Mart.
I fired 400 rounds of the .40 load through two Glock 23's, with no malfunctions. Muzzle velocity lists at 1010fps. I compared the muzzle flash of this load to several other brands/types, and there was very little difference. It is greater than the Winchester Ranger T load, but it wasn't even close to the blinding flash of the Winchester 155gr Silvertip, or the Speer 165gr. Gold Dot.
I soaked five rounds in a glass of water for 12 hrs., with no failure to fire. After five days of submersion however, all five loads tested fired, but with very little punch. The rounds cleared the muzzle, but that was about it.
I tested five loads for penetration and expansion in T-shirt covered wet newsprint, which isn't as fancy as ordinance gelatin, but it works for me. I fired two rounds of Remington Golden Saber as well, because I know the results of this load in ordinance gelatin, water, and newsprint from previous test results.
All five rounds penetrated what would be an average 15" in gelatin, and expanded to .66 caliber.
The same tests were conducted on the 230gr. .45 load, using a Glock 21 and a Springfield Armory 1911A1. All 400 rounds fired without a hitch in both guns, which are box-stock BTW. Velocity lists at 880fps. Muzzle flash was virtually identical to the Win. USA .40 cal. load tested, and I couldn't tell any real difference between it and other 230gr. loads tested, as far as loss of vision or sight picture. Next time I'll have someone else do the firing while I observe. All five loads tested fired without any effect after being soaked for 12 hrs. in water. In the newsprint tests, all five loads expanded to .67 caliber, and penetrated what would be an average of 15.5" in gelatin.
These loads perform almost exactly like the previous Winchester Subsonic brand, as well as the Federal Classic loadings.
Winchester lists the .40cal. 180gr. Subsonic load as penetrating 14.6" of ordinance gelatin and expanding to .64 caliber. Results for the 230gr. .45 Subsonic load are 15.5" and .66 caliber in ordinance gelatin.
I'll be purchasing more of this ammo and trying it in different weapons, as well as testing it in water and against barriers.
Make what you will of these unscientific results :smile: .
Regards,
Clay

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Clay on 2001-07-02 01:34 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Clay on 2001-07-02 03:03 ]</font>
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Also, I've made some scans of bullets, but I have no idea how to post them. Help!? :smile:
 

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I have also been testing the white box .45 230 JHP. I've shot 800 rounds through four 1911's, with great reliability and accuracy. This is one of the most accurate factory loads I've tried in my 1911's.
I chronographed this load in one gun, and got 801 fps average. This may have been a slow barrel, as soon as I get a chance I will chrono them in another gun or two.
 

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I have several 1000 rounds in the shop. I was quite taken with the expensive Winchester 45 HPs and have tried the SubSonic as well as the "personal protection" white box. I am getting 840 to 850 fps from the white box ammo and really like how it feeds, the taper crimp and the PRICE :grin:
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks guys for all the replies :smile: . It's nice to see that there are people more concerned with performance rather than marketing hype and b.s. statistics :grin: . You don't always have to pay a premium price to get premium perormance.
 
G

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Clay,
As we have discussed previously the various "premium" loadings offer only marginally improved performance over the "classic" (not-name brand specific loadings)in very specific circumstances.

A 230gr JHP bullet @ 800-950fps will always be effective regardless of bullet coating, color or cool marketing title.

Your test results are very realistic and I tend to agree with your calulations on gelatin penetration from your newsprint tests.

I tend to like the Talon as I have been able to review autopsy photos from shootings and I like the performance it gives. I also like the Gold Dot because it is cheap and it is very tough, making it good for barriers yet it still has enough "give" to expand in soft targets.

The XTP is my last "name" bullet that I prefer due to the tough construction of the bullet as I have never read of an XTP failure (premature expansion and fragmentation of the bullet) in hunting game.

Stay tuned, as the gelatin tests for white box 9x23 soft point and 230gr .45acp are under way, actually I started them on Sunday.
 

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I bought two cases from my local Sports Authority. Retail is $13.99. I got 25% off due to little brother working there and so it was about $12/box out the door. Best ammo deal I've seen in a while IMO, they ask $10.99 for Win white box ball ammo Q4170 too, might be worth looking into if you currently pay more. I have not chrono'd them yet, but I intend to in the near future and will post results from each barrel length I own(3.5,4.25 and 5inch) Semper Fidelis...Ken M
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhot ... 274879&f=0
Yaahhh!!! Okay, here are pics of 180gr. .40S&W rounds fired into wet newsprint. From the top down are five rounds of Winchester USA JHP, seven rounds of Speer Gold Dot, five rounds of Remington Golden Saber, and two rounds of Winchester SXT. The newsprint was shot while soaking in a Rubbermaid tub full of water. As you can see, there is almost no difference in expanded diameter.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Clay on 2001-07-02 23:48 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Clay on 2001-07-02 23:50 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Clay on 2001-07-02 23:55 ]</font>
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhot ... 276636&f=0
Here are pics of 230gr. .45acp rounds fired into wet newsprint. From the top down are five rounds of Winchester USA JHP, one round of Hornady XTP 230GR+P, one round of Remington Golden Saber, and one round of Speer Gold Dot. Again, very little difference.
 
G

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Clay,
I added the html tags to your post so you can see how to post your pics.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: David DiFabio on 2001-07-03 17:10 ]</font>
 

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Firing through 4 layers of denim into water jugs I got more differences between the various loads.

The Win Supreme SXT (165/1060 and 180/985) got he biggest (.69) in the 4th jug. The GD, GS, HS, EFMJ were all smaller. The GD as small as .54, the EFMJ as small as .425.

From 94-98 I shot most of the various 9/40/45s into road killed deer I had access to, and not much difference there (in expansion anyway); sometimes hard to tell a 9 from a 45. More deformation than expansion. You could measure differences, but it was hard to see it in your hand at arms length. Deer hide is easily the equivalent of heavy clothing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I fired another 200 rounds of .40, and another 50 rounds of .45. Accuracy was very good, all ammo fired without a hitch, and the muzzle flash was low, no more than the popular "premium" loads.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Michael, I think those results are from the older Winchester Subsonic load, which has a different bullet.
 
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